chiodos wrote: So what yall are saying is that its better to buy an m3 than to weld on $100 reinforcements (that you can probably make at home if you already have a welder)? I thought this was grassroots motorsports!
The M3 also has more power and brakes and looks better
e30 and e36 run pretty comparable laps in LeChumpcrap races. I think the E36 is "easier" to get to those lap times, but not much different in prep.
chiodos wrote: So what yall are saying is that its better to buy an m3 than to weld on $100 reinforcements (that you can probably make at home if you already have a welder)? I thought this was grassroots motorsports!
I see what you did there.
I think it would be pretty hard to make these stampings at home, but I'm sure it could be done.
In terms of a track car, if you were planning to buy a 2k e36 and then do power, suspension, brake, alignment and visual/aero mods, you might come out to more than a 5k m3 that has all that already. But both can be excellent on track and budget!
Having owned an E36 M3, I'd say if you want it to be a nice street car, get the M3. If you are looking for a "cheap track toy" as the thread title says, I'd skip the M-tax and get a regular E36 and mod it the way you like.
But, if I was OP, I'd keep the E30.
In reply to rcutclif:
Many people have also had success with epoxying the reinforcements in which is definitely an option for the welding-shy.
I think reinforcements are a must on any E36 to be tracked. However, do note that most of the "budget 2-3k" E36s out there WILL need all new bushings. This is a pretty expensive undertaking, but you can get all of this done and have reinforcements welded in at the same time. My M3 needs bushings right now, and I can definitely tell. The back end is really sloppy, but I plan do redo all bushings and get other frame reinforcements welded in just for peace of mind.
Also, E36s are known for a variety of dumb little issues, like the gauges going whack, and the headliner coming apart, and the power steering leaking...little things like that. But honestly, you will not find a better daily driver/weekend track car for the price. You simply wont.
The E36 is massively practical. I can pack around 4 friends, or a full set of tires and a toolbox. It gets 25 mpg highway and 20 around town, and it still surprises people with how fast it is. It was faster than a boosted Cobalt SS in a straight line, if that means anything.
I dunno, I personally love mine, but its an over-engineered German car. Many people think this = unreliable, but honestly the car is built very well. You simply need to spend more on maintenance than you would on other cars because things wear out that much quicker.
chiodos wrote: So what yall are saying is that its better to buy an m3 than to weld on $100 reinforcements (that you can probably make at home if you already have a welder)? I thought this was grassroots motorsports!
Lol. We're recommending the cheapest M car you can get. A car bred for motorsports that costs as much as a decently put together Miata.
I'd get one just for the bigger brakes. Brake fade is scary. It also might be easier to justify putting money into an M3.
(Don't be the guy who says "..and I coulda had an M3..")
Also, better possible future appreciation, monetarily and for the thumbs up factor as well.
There isn't much of an M tax near me so it makes sense to just get the better motor/better brakes/better stock suspension etc
In reply to Jaynen: Lucky you. 
When I bought my 328i, most M3s of the same vintage were valued at about double the money + a couple hundred bucks vs my 328i.
mr2peak wrote: Lol. We're recommending the cheapest M car you can get. A car bred for motorsports that costs as much as a decently put together Miata. I'd get one just for the bigger brakes. Brake fade is scary. It also might be easier to justify putting money into an M3.
while putting M3 brakes on a 318,325, or 328 is difficult and requires a spindle change.. brakes from the 330 bolt right up
Here's a good challenge. Let's build an 328i M3 beater for M3 money. Prices must be supported with some sort of reference, i.e. no free parts or "lucky finds".
A base 328i costs about $2.5k, M3's near me look to be near $6k for similar condition.
So, for $3.5k in parts, can we build an M3 beater? Or is the answer really just "buy an M3".
Just for a reference, my friend spent about $4k in parts turning his E30 into a basic track car.
To be fair, a $6k M3 is likely going to need all of the same deferred maintenance that a $2-3k 325i would. I would go for full bushing replacement & subframe reinforcements, then E46 330 brakes, good tires, some else's used suspension setup from Bimmerforums, and begin adding power however you like. M3 cams are a good upgrade and you can also get a larger MAF, heck you go pretty far on an NA built M50/52 these days. Or you could just go turbo.
IMO, the E36 325 is more desirable than the 328. The M50 intake manifold is a much freer flowing design than the M52, which was redesigned for mid-range torque. If you give both a basic ECU tune, the M50 actually makes MORE power than the tuned M52. Also, no OBDII, which is good for a lot of people. If you think VANOS is dumb you can even get a '92 car, which is a nice option to have.
My local BMW specialist/race shop offered me a tin top 4dr green m3 for less than 5k and I don't think it was a terrible condition one this is a great shop.
Doesnt the S50 motor start with almost 100more hp?
Jaynen wrote: My local BMW specialist/race shop offered me a tin top 4dr green m3 for less than 5k and I don't think it was a terrible condition one this is a great shop. Doesnt the S50 motor start with almost 100more hp?
Nope, 50. Ratings stock are about 190 for M50/52 and 240 for s50/52.
4dr manual m3s are the rarest (combo of trans and body - coupe, sedan, vert), if that means anything to you. I have also heard that the 4dr chassis is stiffer than the coupe, but that is just what I have heard.
I was looking at wikipedia which was listing the international models I think
325 2,494 cc (2.494 L; 152.2 cu in) 6cyl DOHC 24V Petrol 192 PS (141 kW; 189 hp) @5900 rpm 245 N·m (181 lb·ft) @4200 rpm M50B25
M3 2,990 cc (2.99 L; 182 cu in) 3,201 cc (3.201 L; 195.3 cu in) 6cyl DOHC 24V Petrol 290 PS (213 kW; 286 hp) @7000 rpm 321 PS (236 kW; 317 hp) @7400 rpm 323 N·m (238 lb·ft) @3900 rpm 350 N·m (260 lb·ft) @3250 rpm S50B30 S50B32
And depended on where you are located I can get you the info on that 4dr green tintop manual in southern california
In reply to Jaynen:
That M3 spec above is the euro 3.0L. We got a 220HP S50 in 95 and a 240HP S52 96+ (at the crank)
We didn't get the snazzy euro motor techno-whizzbangery until the E46 M3 dropped here.
If you give me $10000 I can get you 290 wHP out of that n/a S52 though ;)
Haha only 10k :) sounds like a steal
Yup, the gap is much smaller between a regular E36 and an M3 in the US. I think they also got a 6-speed transmission at some point.
US spec M3's all make about 240hp, the 3.2 just makes a bit more torque. The only difference is the length of stroke, same block/bore/head etc.
An M50 car is not better than an M52 car! All US spec M/Sxx cars share the same head casting. Swap to the m50 manifold (just like you would with the m3) and the extra displacement works it's magic. I can't think of a single reason to start with a 325 over a 328. The m52 will also hold a lot more boost due to fully forged internals.
rcutclif wrote:Jaynen wrote: My local BMW specialist/race shop offered me a tin top 4dr green m3 for less than 5k and I don't think it was a terrible condition one this is a great shop. Doesnt the S50 motor start with almost 100more hp?Nope, 50. Ratings stock are about 190 for M50/52 and 240 for s50/52. 4dr manual m3s are the rarest (combo of trans and body - coupe, sedan, vert), if that means anything to you. I have also heard that the 4dr chassis is stiffer than the coupe, but that is just what I have heard.
I've seen a 328i with cams + exhaust beat M3s routinely. He claimed to make the same hp as a stock M3.
He is supercharged now.
IIRC he also has lancer evolution brembos on it too after he SC'd it.
In reply to kanaric:
The problem lies with the part where the cams/exhaust/intake/software/injectors for the 328 cost the same as for the M3. Same for the 3.64 gears. Same for the lightweight flywheel. And doing the same mods to the M3 yields the better car if for no other reason than it will always be an M3 and the value will rise comparatively to the other models once the depreciation curve starts back the other way.
Get the M3 now while they are cheap and plentiful.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Get the M3 now while they are cheap and plentiful.
This.
<328i owner
E30 is still a cooler car
mr2peak wrote: E30 is still a cooler car
Unless its a 4 door.
I can't find a decent E36 M3 (or even an E46) for sale. Most I've looked at were poorly modified, spray painted flat black or worse. I think what I want is a 318ti with an E36 M3 drivetrain swap for a cut-rate M Coupe that wasn't ever owned by the "Persian dance mafia" as my favorite mechanic calls the people who tastelessly modify M cars with dumb wings, aggressive ground effects, neon lights & rattle-can paint jobs. 
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