E36 Eurospec M3 vs E46 M3

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: The S54 is an evolution of the euro motor and a true racing bred masterpiece of the same vein as the S14, S38, & S50B32. Aluminum block, 8000 RPM redline, 333hp 310 ft/lbs in bone stock form...

S54 has an iron block--heavier than an LSx V8. An inline-6 is a nice luxury motor, but it is a rather poor configuration for motorsports.

FWIW: The E80/E90 _28i cars have a magnesium block motor with aluminum sleeves. The _35i cars have aluminium blocks--much sturdier aluminum blocks than the older M52/M54 aluminum blocks.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: The euro M3 is great but the S54 in the E46 M3 is better. So, no, it's not worth it anymore. If you love the E36 more than the E46 - swap the S54 in. It actually costs the same or less than the old euro swap and the motor itself is pretty common so you can always find parts in the good ol USA.

You guys amaze me. If someone told me I had to do a motor swap on a BMW it would be greeted with the same enthusiasm as if I was told to climb Mt. Everest in the nude. You talk about it like it's changing underwear. Seriously, I am not being insulting or sarcastic.....I truly am amazed. I swapped a Subaru motor once, think I'd rather be tasered (tased?) than do that again. Props to your abilities.

In reply to Feedyurhed: I just did my first engine pull and it wasn't too bad. It's the wiring that is the complex and daunting part of engine swaps. I would be more confident in doing an engine swap now, especially since both of my cars can use one.

Matthew Huizing wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: The S54 is an evolution of the euro motor and a true racing bred masterpiece of the same vein as the S14, S38, & S50B32. Aluminum block, 8000 RPM redline, 333hp 310 ft/lbs in bone stock form...

S54 has an iron block--heavier than an LSx V8. An inline-6 is a nice luxury motor, but it is a rather poor configuration for motorsports.

You are correct on the iron block (not sure what I was thinking) but the 2nd point is certainly debatable given BMW's motorsports record with that configuration. It may not be as "ideal" packaging-wise as V motor but it's been a pretty solid performer in racing over most of it's evolution.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

Agreed, I'm sure BMW would like to poke fun at how many of its "bad at motorsports" I-6 cars beat v8's in their rather lengthy racing careers.

Also, hooray necropost from 2012.

Tambry wrote: Hello, I just joined yesterday after Googling "M3 S-54 swap into E-92 328i" and this thread popped up. I have an E-92 coupe that I built as a track car. The car handles beautifully in the bends, but has no pull in a straight line. This is partly because I removed the stock steering wheel and OEM seat belts; now every error code flashes for seat belts, air bags, DCT, ABS, Engine Light etc. I scan and reset, but as soon as I accelerate or touch the brakes the errors come back on. So, I've decided to remove the engine and install a S-54. If anyone has done a similar swap, can you shed some light on the problems associated with the ECU, DME? Do I need a stand alone ECU? Will stock gauges still work, or do I need an AIM or Race-Pak DAI or dash? Can I use my existing wire harness, ECU, starter, key, and ODB-2 sensors? Thanks Tambry Oo=[][]=oO

Ask GPS he is the BMW whisperer

ryanty22 wrote: Ask GPS he is the BMW whisperer

My whispering has not yet proceeded beyond the E46 chassis. When this thread started it was firmly rooted in E30/E36/964 land. I'm not sure it has any interest in modern BMWs at all.

I scan and reset, but as soon as I accelerate or touch the brakes the errors come back on. So, I've decided to remove the engine and install a S-54.

However, if you are struggling with limp mode from disabling things it would be beneficial to spend time figuring out how to fool the ECU instead of swapping a previous gen motor into your newer car.

Frankly, if I was building a track car out of an E92... I'd stop. Then ditch the E92 entirely in favor of something lighter and simpler (or complex but track-worthy like a Cayman).

If there were only 45 "Eurospec" E36 M3s sold in Canada, what are the chances of coming across one for sale? I'd guess that these are already well on the way toward becoming collectible, so are they beginning to appreciate the way E30 M3s have?

I looked under the dash on my wifes 07 328xi once, just ONCE i was terrified. Ive seen server rooms with less wires and I dont get along with electrical

nderwater wrote: If there were only 45 "Eurospec" E36 M3s sold in Canada, what are the chances of coming across one for sale? I'd guess that these are already well on the way toward becoming collectible, so are they beginning to appreciate the way E30 M3s have?

Unsure. The rest of the world got a bazillion of them so they are only rare on this continent but it's not much trouble to source one from England or Germany and they are fast approaching an age where it will be legal to put a plate on them.

Now there are a million S54 powered E36 cars out there on any given track day so the appeal of the euro car has worn off a bit.

nderwater wrote: If there were only 45 "Eurospec" E36 M3s sold in Canada, what are the chances of coming across one for sale? I'd guess that these are already well on the way toward becoming collectible, so are they beginning to appreciate the way E30 M3s have?

They don't seem to be too hard to find. When I was looking at the time I started this great I found three for sale. I looked at one, and made an offer on one. The one I offered on fell through, and I ended up with an E46 M3 instead (see to month's issue).

I don't have any regrets. I think the s54 is brilliant, and the interior quality of e E46s are light years better than those of the E36s.

Question for GPS, how would you set up an E36 racecar? With an S54? Leave stock for class purposes?

jdbuilder wrote: Question for GPS, how would you set up an E36 racecar? With an S54? Leave stock for class purposes?

I guess it depends on what you are looking for... if you are racing you get out the rule book first, then the checkbook.

If you just want a stupid fast track day car in straight up simple terms for well under $20k and a lot of elbow grease...

• S54 with Randy Muller's AlphaN software in a OE (modded) ECU
• mod fuel rail with return and 70 psi FPR
• Supersprint headers
• 3.5" open exhaust
• big ass aluminum radiator
• big ass aluminum oil cooler + tstat
• ZF 5speed from E36 M3
• Automatic flexplate modded to accept button flywheel, 5" 2 disk clutch & rally pucks (so it can slip a little for getting on the trailer), Tilton hydraulic TO bearing & VAC adapter plate.
• OS Giken LSD with 3.64 gears
• dual fuel pump setup and/or swirl pot (OR ATL cell)
• gut completely and add cage tied into the rear subframe supports
• weld in chassis reinforcements
• roll center + bump correction in front control arms/tie rods
• spherical bearings and solid bushings everywhere except the guibo, leave that rubber
• good camber plates (Ground Control Race) + decent coilovers and as much quality damper as you can pay for (extra knobs are not always the best answer either but Penske written on the side probably is ). I like Bilstien's higher end stuff because I can get it rebuilt anywhere. Fanboys will cry and tell you to buy JRZs. Whatever.
• spring rates above 650f/800r (900/1050 is popular where it's smooth ... but keep 150lbs between f & r regardless)
• Huge front bar, stock rear M3 bar
• lower the front as far as you can correct for and not bottom out
• set the rear rake .75" higher (measure between jack points to ground)
• flat bottom the front to the subframe and give yourself 4-5" of splitter out in front.
• buy a good aftermarket wing (Brooks seem to be popular), install it about 15" behind the trunk, even with the roof and set it to flat. Adjust to taste.
• camber at -3.2f/-2.6r to start and then adjust from tire temps (assuming Hoosier R6)
• toe... 1/16 out in front, 1/16 in in the rear, adjust to taste
• throw on sticky tires (245/40-17 R6)
• throw in a set of Hawk DTC-60s at all four corners
• corner weight to less than .5% cross, 50/50 l/r

Go to a track day, grin like a fool

That was fun.

EDIT: 12mm wheel spacers up front!

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

jdbuilder wrote: Question for GPS, how would you set up an E36 racecar? With an S54? Leave stock for class purposes?

I guess it depends on what you are looking for... if you are racing you get out the rule book first, then the checkbook. If you just want a stupid fast track day car in straight up simple terms for well under $20k and a lot of elbow grease... - S54 with Randy Muller's AlphaN software in a OE (modded) ECU - mod fuel rail with return and 70 psi FPR - Supersprint headers - 3.5" open exhaust - big ass aluminum radiator - big ass aluminum oil cooler + tstat - ZF 5speed from E36 M3 - Automatic flexplate modded to accept button flywheel, 5" 2 disk clutch & rally pucks (so it can slip a little for getting on the trailer), Tilton hydraulic TO bearing & VAC adapter plate. - OS Giken LSD with 3.64 gears - dual fuel pump setup and/or swirl pot (OR ATL cell) - gut completely and add cage tied into the rear subframe supports - weld in chassis reinforcements - roll center + bump correction in front control arms/tie rods - spherical bearings and solid bushings everywhere except the guibo, leave that rubber - good camber plates (Ground Control Race) + decent coilovers and as much quality damper as you can pay for (extra knobs are not always the best answer either but Penske written on the side probably is ). I like Bilstien's higher end stuff because I can get it rebuilt anywhere. Fanboys will cry and tell you to buy JRZs. Whatever. - spring rates above 650f/800r (900/1050 is popular where it's smooth ... but keep 150lbs between f & r regardless) - Huge front bar, stock rear M3 bar - lower the front as far as you can correct for and not bottom out - set the rear rake .75" higher (measure between jack points to ground) - flat bottom the front to the subframe and give yourself 4-5" of splitter out in front. - buy a good aftermarket wing (Brooks seem to be popular), install it about 15" behind the trunk, even with the roof and set it to flat. Adjust to taste. - camber at -3.2f/-2.6r to start and then adjust from tire temps (assuming Hoosier R6) - toe... 1/16 out in front, 1/16 in in the rear, adjust to taste - throw on sticky tires (245/40-17 R6) - throw in a set of Hawk DTC-60s at all four corners - corner weight to less than .5% cross, 50/50 l/r Go to a track day, grin like a fool That was fun.

See? the BMW whisperer

Whoa! Nice... Guess I will start on everything but the engine swap for now.

In reply to jdbuilder:

You really don't need the swap in an M3. Do the 3.64 LSD though if you can.

A stock S52 is a fine motor. My race car is in BMWCCA IS class so it's basically a stock M3 drivetrain and brakes with a nice but limited (rules again) racing suspension and a good cage. It's a damn fast, fun car for what it is. I just put up a 2.12.xx at the Glen last week on pretty cycled out BFG R1's. That isn't making guys in Vipers jealous but it's not exactly needing an apology for being in the way either.

They are great track cars with just some bolt-ons.

Thanks for the reply GPS, I take your point and respectfully disagree.

The E-92 328i has virtually "no performance aftermarket" created yet since the chassis was still active until last year, making it difficult to chip, header, cam, etc. the stock motor into a track performer.

The S-54 has ample power in stock form, and has a myriad of aftermarket performance add-ons to keep most people happy. The configuration, (inline 6) weight, size and mounts should present no insurmountable mechanical issues, while making it a more "traditional" BMW race car.

The car handles like a dream, I love the shape, I've been reducing as much weight as possible, and with the new suspension and brakes it handles like a real race car. Actually, I love the Cayman, but I'd have a hard time getting my fat ass in there, and heaven help the rescue crew if they ever had to get me out!

I had hoped someone could let me know how to manage the swap. Do I need a stand alone ECU DME, use the 328 unit, to transplant the original (and key) from the donor S-54?

Thx TomB Oo=[][]=oO