Early Miata information please

A former customer of mine just blew up his Morris Minor engine for the fourth time in 3 years.  

He wants me to repower it for him.  I’m thinking of using the early Miata engine but I need dimensional information.  

A. How long is the engine from back of cylinder head to the front of the fan?  If the fan is removed how much shorter would it get?  

B  How far is it from the back of the head to the gear shift lever in neutral? 

C   Is the front subframe removable?  If so how wide is it from hub to hub?  

D.  How wide is the rear subframe hub to hub? 

E  How much does the engine and transmission weigh? 

F.  If converted to carbs does it have a distributor?  If not how bulky is the computer?  And will it survive in the engine bay?  

Don't have an NA handy so I can't give you the measurements and weights, but I at least have partial answers for you .

A - no fan, the Miatas run an electric fan. I don't think there is a mount for a mechanical fan either.

C. Yes

F. No distributor. Size is typical 80s ECU. Wouldn't put it in the engine bay. You might be able to get away with using programmable ignition only using something like Megajolt if you really, really, really want to run carbs.

You might look at the series that GRM/CMS ran where Carl converted an MG to Miata drivetrain.  Should give you some ideas.

Just an FYI:  You do have specify where you want your measurements.  The "back of the head" will vary a bit year to year, as they used different Cam Angle Sensors (CAS), which stick out (from memory) 2 to 3".  You can lose this distance if you plug the hole and run a crank pickup of some sort for your ignition.

Here's some ideas where the Midget was discussed, which has more packaging issues than a Minor:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/miata-powered-mg-midget/7520/page1/

You wont be the first one to do it

Minors in particular, there have been a number of them done in the UK. I'm not sure why that chassis seems to invite this particular swap, but it does.

D) is going to be in the region of 59", much too wide for a Minor. Track width is only 56ish, but the wheels are 38 mm positive offset. Front width is similar.  

I have NB front and rear subframes with suspension sitting in the garage. They are a touch wider (I think,,,,Keith?) than NA stuff. I can get better dimensions if needed.

NB rear uprights have 5mm more track on each side. It comes from the uprights, not the subframe or control arms.

Keith Tanner said:

Minors in particular, there have been a number of them done in the UK. I'm not sure why that chassis seems to invite this particular swap, but it does.

I think it's a continuation of the Fiat twin-cam swap that was a really popular Minor hot rodding swap in UK during the 80s and early 90s. As the supply of these engines dried up in the UK, the Miata/MX5 one was a reasonable alternative.

http://www.britishv8.org/Other/MarcMeccia.htm   

In this build the stock NA track width and wheels don't look too bad, although it does end up flared..

BoxheadCougarTim said:

Keith Tanner said:

Minors in particular, there have been a number of them done in the UK. I'm not sure why that chassis seems to invite this particular swap, but it does.

I think it's a continuation of the Fiat twin-cam swap that was a really popular Minor hot rodding swap in UK during the 80s and early 90s. As the supply of these engines dried up in the UK, the Miata/MX5 one was a reasonable alternative.

I did one of those Fiat 124 swaps into an MG Midget. That thing was a lot of fun between rear axle failures.

Pete

In reply to Stefan :

Sorry but the Midget/ Sprite are different than the Morris  Minor. On the Morris the steering rack goes behind the engine on the Midget the rack is in front of the engine

In reply to WonkoTheSane : I could also weld in a pocket in the firewall to solve the issue.  It  also depends on how high it is from the bottom of the pan. It might not be a problem because it’s over the steering rack  ( which is behind the engine on a Morris Minor)  

In reply to DeadSkunk : I might get away with a NA because part of this Morris is the wire wheels.  

In reply to DeadSkunk :

From memory the NA is about 2 inches narrower than the NB 

frenchyd said:

In reply to Stefan :

Sorry but the Midget/ Sprite are different than the Morris  Minor. On the Morris the steering rack goes behind the engine on the Midget the rack is in front of the engine

Sigh, you didn't get what I was trying to say, but good luck.

frenchyd said:

In reply to DeadSkunk :

From memory the NA is about 2 inches narrower than the NB 

Overall vehicle width, maybe, but the suspension systems are only different by the 5mm per side that Keith quoted. Virtually everything on an NB will swap into an NA. NA wheels are a half inch narrower, which helps a bit more, 6 mm on the outboard side.

the rack is either going to tuck up to the bump on the oilpan or you migh have an issue.

How hard it it to convert the Moogie to a rack that runs in front of the engine, maybe MG midget suspension?

I think you can switch the FI to carbs (dual side drafts!) and use a distributor from an escort GT or 323?  That would probably use up more room behind the head but allow for kick ass intake wooshes.

Spend time browsing the Morris Minor Owners Club website in the UK. The Miata swap has been done numerous times, both 1.6 and 1.8 engines. So has the front subframe swap, which may address the whole issue of front steer vs rear steer racks. 

Another thought, if you can get the Miata front swap in a Minor, the rear axle from a 4-bolt Fox body Mustang is actually narrower than the Miata front. You could redrill the Mustang axles to 4x100 (maybe) and use Miata spec wheels all around. I've been considering this one myself because I'd like to put the Miata front end on my Corolla, but stick to a live axle rear for simplicity.

DeadSkunk said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to DeadSkunk :

From memory the NA is about 2 inches narrower than the NB 

Overall vehicle width, maybe, but the suspension systems are only different by the 5mm per side that Keith quoted. Virtually everything on an NB will swap into an NA. NA wheels are a half inch narrower, which helps a bit more, 6 mm on the outboard side.

Overall vehicle width difference is almost nothing when measured at the mirrors. The rear fenders of the NB are something like 10mm wider per side. Definitely not 2" difference. They're basically the same car.

The 1.6 is smaller in just about every dimension than the 1.8 is, so if space is a factor then you know what you do.

DeadSkunk said:

Another thought, if you can get the Miata front swap in a Minor, the rear axle from a 4-bolt Fox body Mustang is actually narrower than the Miata front. You could redrill the Mustang axles to 4x100 (maybe) and use Miata spec wheels all around. I've been considering this one myself because I'd like to put the Miata front end on my Corolla, but stick to a live axle rear for simplicity.

Wish I'd come across this while doing the MG! That's good to know. FYI, I had Moser make up some custom axle shafts with the Miata 4x100 pattern on the end. They went into a Blazer rear end that was the same width as the Miata rear, now I wish it had been narrower.

In reply to Stefan :

while the Midget and Morris use the same basic engine.  Either 948 / 1098 / or 1275 versions.  The    Difference between engine compartments is the steering rack. 

On the Midget  it’s down low in front of the engine.   In the Morris the steering rack is up above the bellhousing  which limits where a replacement engine can shift around.  

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Looking at front and rear suspensions it’s apparent I won’t be able to use them as they are.  That’s  a problem. The stock rear end is designed for 37 horsepower. With care  and narrow tires it will deal with perhaps 70-80 horsepower.  The Miata would shatter that rear end  Maybe a narrowed MGB but that would add significant expense.   Perhaps I could use a MGB front suspension that was narrowed with a midget steering rack. 

Flaring the fenders would not be suitable for this Morris.