Eaton superchargers? Prices & sources?

dean1484 said:

frenchyd said:

 

There is a point where things become art.  I think this has achieved that.  

Hey Frenchyed... is that V12 one of your builds? Dean is right... Art Work. I'm droolin' at that!

See if you can find an Eaton TVS type from an Audi or jag/lr. Newer tech than the old roots blower so they're more efficient, and flow a bit better. Something about three loves on the rotor instead of two, and twist rate or something. 

what are the parts that wear out if you are looking at a junkyard supercharger ?

and are they fixable cheap or just get another one ?

Bearings are cheap, but if they really wear a lot the can let the rotors wobble. You should probably open the case and make sure the rotors didn't eat each other or the case. Also, some rotors (GTP, I think) have a coating that's supposed to create a tighter seal but can flake off and cause damage.

In reply to 03Panther :

That caught me too especially when I remembered the Mercury Mustang. Cougar isn't it?  

03Panther said:

dean1484 said:

frenchyd said:

 

There is a point where things become art.  I think this has achieved that.  

Hey Frenchyed... is that V12 one of your builds? Dean is right... Art Work. I'm droolin' at that!

No but it really is beautiful isn't it?  The cool thing is I think the primary pipes are the right length  too.  Art blended with science. Then the Six cylinder behind it is nicely done as well. 
 

They have that car doing a pass and it sure sounds clean.  

Schmidlap said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Victory library.com has a bunch of info on Eaton superchargers including a list of which cars have which superchargers (including different generations of the same model supercharger) as well as a bunch of pictures showing the inlet and outlet configuration for many of them. Unfortunately, they don't have exterior dimensions, but it might help you zero in on a model that has the configuration you're looking for.

This was Unbelievably cool. Jaguar used the 90 series in their 6 cylinder  which is basically 1/2 a V12 with a longer stroke and 4 valves per cylinder. 
the interesting thing is the supercharger added 115 more horsepower  326 vs 211 

and by my calculation a pair of them will add  230 hp. To a V12  bringing the engine from 262 hp to 492. 

californiamilleghia said:

which ones work like an old GMC 671 blower with the intake on top and the "out" on the bottom ?

I know some have the intake on the end......

What you are thinking of is the old B&M blowers.  The smallest on is 122 cu in ( roots type)  you might be able to put that on a V8 and with a carburator on top still close the hood. It's typically used on 300 cu in V8's 

The  250 is a little taller and pumps about the same amount of air as a GMC 4-71.  Typically used on 350+ cu in engines.   
 

Then comes the Mega blower size still more compact than a GMC 6-71 but designed for the big block 454+ engines. 
 

 A rough quick and ready estimate of power gain by bolting on a supercharger  is 40%.  Now there are all kinds of ways to pull more power  but the closer you get to the edge the greater the chance of things going Bang!  

yes I am thinking of the B+M style  GMC 671 blower , just a small one........

That is top and bottom  for intake and exhaust so you could put a carb on it , 

I guess some of the models that have an end "intake" could use a carb too , 

and the B+M superchargers are never that cheap at the swap meet....

I guess I still like the Judsons of the 50s-60s !

In reply to californiamilleghia :

The Old Judsons never were that good and since they were out of balance just didn't last that long. Their sliding vanes were always wearing out and if they broke were sucked into the engine doing a fair amount of damage.  Wade or Italmechanica  (called SCOT when mounted on Ford Flatheads ) were the best lasting most efficient of the older ones. Shirrock also was another out of balance blower.But more common on MGTC's 

The nice thing about B&M blowers is how light they are. At 28 pounds  it weighs almost 1/3 of what a 4/71 does and with tighter  tolerances darn near as good at making power since the rotors are smaller diameter ( but longer)  the pulses of air are more evenly distributed and a lot easier to adjust your carburetor, especially at an idle. 

Will said:

Bearings are cheap, but if they really wear a lot the can let the rotors wobble. You should probably open the case and make sure the rotors didn't eat each other or the case. Also, some rotors (GTP, I think) have a coating that's supposed to create a tighter seal but can flake off and cause damage.

Is there a mileage point  where it's just time to replace bearings etc.?  

In reply to frenchyd :

First, I think I'm going to take back something I said earlier. If rotors have contacted the inside of the case, that damage should be visible on the rotor pack without opening the case (through the inlet or outlet, depending on the case design). For a junkyard blower at least, where keeping it cheap is a main goal, passing on a damaged part and finding a better donor is going to be cheaper than repairing/replacing bearings, etc. 

In general, I don't think there's a big need to replace the bearings unless you have reason to suspect they're bad--scored rotors/case, noise/grinding when turning by hand, etc. The only reason I've ever opened the case on my Supercoupe is that I replaced the factory case with an aftermarket case (Magnum Powres MPX). And after I put it back together, it hasn't been apart again in probably 10 years.

Eaton pretty much treats their blowers as sealed, lifetime units. They even say not to replace the oil unless it's leaking.

In reply to Will :

Thanks for that tip.  Starting next week I'm off searching.  

One nagging problem has been bothering me.  Using 2 blowers should I have a balance pipe  or anything?  I think it's simple enough to do.  I can tie the plenum on each side together? There is a plate at the front and back of each one plenum Or am I making things overly complex?  

dean1484 said:

I have a couple Eatons on my shelves.  I think I have two M62s and an M90.  If you take the snout from an early Buick (1992 I think) and then put it on the back housing of a Merc 230 Compressor (again the early version with the HUGE pulley) you get a really compact little M62 with s slightly longer snout than the original M62 that was on the Merc. 

So hypothetically speaking Frenchy you could get two of the Buick and two of the Merc units and piece together two very compact M62 units.  AND the M62 front snout from teh Buick has a pulley diameter of 2 3/8". I assume this is how they got it to work in the 3.8l.   This in theory would give you 6-8lbs of boost on a 7.6l motor BUT that does not take in to account efficiency losses as nothing works to 100 percent so for 5.3l I think two of these little units would be more than enough to do what you want to do and give you really good fitment.

Now some photos to prove that I actually did this and this is not just internet myth and legend.  Yes I have actually done it

The top unit in the photo below is the M62 from the C230.  I tried putting a alternator pulley on it (from a porsche 944) to get rid of the really large clutched pulley.  While it worked it was ugly and it put the unit really far forward on the motor.  This made packaging a bit of an issue.  So I got the M62 that you see below it from an early Buick and . . ..   

 

Vola swap the front snouts and associated impellers and you get the unit on the left.  Perfect for what I am doing with it  LOL

 

As a complete side note I think this is how the unit that is used on some twin supercharged Aston Martins is  actually made but if you try to purchase one of those M62 units you have to pay Aston Martin pricing. I have never inquired with Eaton if they would actually sell this configuration.   

For comparison here is an M62 from an Aston Martin DB7

 

Yes there are some differences like the number of ribs on the pulley but the basic M62 unit and snout look to be basically the same.

That looks very interesting.  The short one is from a Mercedes-Benz C230  the longer one is from a Buick?  You put the linger snout on the short one.  Am I correct so far?  
Is that opening the output from the supercharger?  If so where does the air enter?   I assume from the picture of the Buick blower it enters from the back end ( opposite the drive pulley ). But I don't see anything like that on the short one.   
 

It is at the back. You end up with a mini version of an m90 from a Ford super coup or virtually  an exact copy of the units used on an Aston

Here u go

tape is over the intake port to keep it clean. Some other photos I just took

tape has some measurements on it for my quick reference for a project. 
 

My shelf of things that make boost. I mean everyone needs to keep these kinds of things on hand. You can see the custom pulley I made from the alternator on the unit on the bottom shelf (blower on the right. M90 is on the left).  Some misc turbos of various flavors and the custom m62 is on the far right of the top shelf. That one is actually the very first one I made to test on a 2.5l motor (maybe Porsche related). And why it has the tape on it with the measurements. It was a proof of concept.  The second and subsiquent ones after that are in the wiled on a customers cars. I have done a couple of these for packaging reasons for custom setups I have made over the years.
 

And before anyone asks no I don't do this stuff for money any more. I have a couple select people that I built things for that I use to prepared there race cars at my shop back in the day but that is it. I really don't have a working shop any more and I have other business to run that take up my time. 
 

Another factoid. My hybrid M62 almost produced to much boost for a cheep build on a 2.5l motor. Meaning you need to spend more on things like injectors and better intercoolers and a stand alone but 10 or more psi was not a problem depending on what I used for a pulley configuration. I actually knew this as the M62 was used on a 3.8l on the Buick's. I think they were running about 5-8psi. Not sure of that.  
 

What I ultimately learned was it was better to put it on a 3.0l motor as the boost comes down to something that is much less of a risk while the added displacement adds back some power so you end up basically at the same total power output as the 2.5l version of the motor. The 3.0 also comes in a car that shares a lot of bits with the turbo version of the car so all the required turbo parts like intercoolers and piping and what not is bolt in. And I think it looks much better than the NA version of the car that I originally boosted. 

You've been very helpful and I like the whole idea.  I'm checking local junkyards for candidates.  Since I'm feeding 5.3 liters with 2 superchargers each one will fill 2.650 liters.  So M90's seem overkill. 

My thinking was to use E85 rather than go through a cooler.  85% ethanol  should keep the charge plenty cool and if not cool enough I'm thinking a simple shot of windshield washer fluid after the carb would. I am working with a compression of only 7.8-1 

  Making various sized pulley's shouldn't be difficult. I still have my small lathe and should be able to find someone locally to broach the keyway. 

Unless e85 is plentiful  where you are a decent tune and some intercoolers  should be what you need on 93 pump gas due to your low starting compression. Are you going carb or efi?

In reply to dean1484 :

Carbs are so simple  I want to use a pair of HD8 SU's per blower. ( 2 inch  total of 800cfm ) but I accept that EFI is better. 
 However I'd need a serious education to get EFI working but the SU's I can almost do in my sleep 
 

Yes E85 is very common around here ( nearest station has both 30% ethanol, and 85% ethanol  plus15% ethanol ) plus the usual 10% in everything and E85 is  70-80 cents a gallon cheaper than premium.  
 

I

In reply to dean1484 :

How big are the holes in the back of the supercharger?  ( approx is good enough)   

Supposedly the coating on the lobes will come apart if you introduce fuel or water on the inlet side.  Sticking a sidedraft on the inlet of an M90 seemed like an easy button but I was told "no".

I've heard the bearings also don't like it, but I don't quite get that since they are sealed.

frenchyd said:

In reply to dean1484 :

How big are the holes in the back of the supercharger?  ( approx is good enough)   

I will try and get that tonight for you.