EcoB0000000000ST Mustangs

DirtyBird222 wrote:

Harvey wrote:

Knurled wrote: None of my Subaru customers with stock tunes have blown engines. Zero. I don't have any '08-up turbo Impreza customers save for one, admittedly. That one is probably the only one on the road with a stock exhaust for that matter (Regarding "modifying a 300 mile car" referenced upthread. I had an '10 Camaro come to me for headers and exhaust. When I pulled it into the bay it had just over 250 miles...)

Friend with 04 STI, blown motor at 50k miles, stock tune. Friend with 08 STI, blown motor at 80k miles stock tune. First one autocrosses, but is in his 70s so doesn't do anything more with the car. Second one just drove from home to work.

Why I started out with a lease for my STI. It's their property so if they don't want to fix it if it blows up, then so be it. Have your car back.

Fairly sure that they'd then turn around and ding your credit majorly. Part of the lease terms i believe let them put a lien on any other items you are currently loaned on, like your house...

Boost_Crazy wrote: In reply to jv8: I'd also like to see statistics, but it's hard to ignore the sheer volume of anecdotal evidence. Also look at the market for EJ25 short blocks. There are numerous places offering new factory short blocks, and new short blocks with upgraded pistons. You don't see that, especially on that scale, for most other cars. The factory tune is also a huge factor, and they got worse in some years. The preloaded access port tunes are safer than the factory tune.

I agree lots of EJ25 short blocks blow... what I'd like to see is how many of those were on factory or reputable (Cobb) tunes and nothing else. I chalk up many of those blown engines to the driver demographic.

Since we're on the ecoboost topic and since they don't put LS or Coyote engines in a 5 door hatch... what is the GRM consensus on ecoboost reliability? This assumes Ford tune w/ warranty. The RS is still high on my list.

On the liability issue put me in the camp that says an aftermarket tune voids the engine warranty.

I am also wondering how these Ecoboost engines are holding up. I've considered a new Ecoboost Mustang, as well as Ecoboost Fusions and Focus ST's as potential replacements for my daily driver Mazda 3 for some time now. Both of my previous daily driver WRX's didn't really enjoy being daily drivers. I have really no interest in tuning them either; I just want a kinda quick, fun daily driver.

Also, stock tune Subarus definitely do blow up. A friend's (surprise, surprise) 2005 Legacy GT Wagon's engine destroyed itself before it hit 100k miles. He is not really into cars; he bought it to have something that is AWD to get to the mountains because he's a snowboard instructor during the winter.

Here was the problem with the stock Subaru tune:

Notice that between 2800 RPM - 3650 RPM, boost is between 14 and 15 psi with the stock tune. Now look at the AFR from the same pull:

At 2800 RPM, the car is at 15psi of boost with an A/F ratio of 13.5 to 1! Only after 3300 RPM does the AFR dip below 12:1.

In reply to dj06482:

Yep, and it causes detonation due to a lean condition usually in the #4 cylinder which in turn leads to pieces falling off said piston.

I'm down to one friend(out of 4) with 08+ sti's that haven't popped. One was modified a bit, one with an access port(and unabused 8k miles) and a bone stock babied 12k miles. SoA covered the warranty claim on the modded one, yet denied the other two.....

Sure, 4 intimately known cars isn't a large sample size, but what are the odds of witnessing a 75% fail rate?

Sounds about as brilliant as the person at ford who's decision led to a 100% failure expectancy on an engine back in the 90's.....

I drove this car when it came out and was blown away by how nice it drove. It does not have the torque, art least is stock form, of the V8 cars though.

At 2800 RPM, the car is at 15psi of boost with an A/F ratio of 13.5 to 1! Only after 3300 RPM does the AFR dip below 12:1.

Now you make me want to throw a wideband on there to see what I've been running for a decade. Maybe Cobb saved me back in the day or maybe I have a time bomb.

SilverFleet wrote: I am also wondering how these Ecoboost engines are holding up. I've considered a new Ecoboost Mustang, as well as Ecoboost Fusions and Focus ST's as potential replacements for my daily driver Mazda 3 for some time now. Both of my previous daily driver WRX's didn't really enjoy being daily drivers.

I borrowed my friend's Mazdaspeed 3 and loved it (seats, interior, etc)... until I tried to accelerate out of my development (up hill turn on wet gravel/asphalt mix)... I nearly lost it going sideways into the far ditch. I then went back to my STi :-)

Anyway another STi is out now because no hatch (and EJ25 issues). Really hoping the ecoboost RS pans out.

jv8 wrote:

SilverFleet wrote: I am also wondering how these Ecoboost engines are holding up. I've considered a new Ecoboost Mustang, as well as Ecoboost Fusions and Focus ST's as potential replacements for my daily driver Mazda 3 for some time now. Both of my previous daily driver WRX's didn't really enjoy being daily drivers.

I borrowed my friend's Mazdaspeed 3 and loved it (seats, interior, etc)... until I tried to accelerate out of my development (up hill turn on wet gravel/asphalt mix)... I nearly lost it going sideways into the far ditch. I then went back to my STi :-) Anyway another STi is out now because no hatch (and EJ25 issues). Really hoping the ecoboost RS pans out.

I currently have a regular Mazda 3, not the Mazdaspeed 3. I did have a friend who had one, and it was faster than either one of my WRX's, especially at speed. Out of the hole, it didn't have the AWD grip, but once it got going, it was no contest.

I didn't like the 2010-up models, not because of the goofjaw styling, but because the interior was EXACTLY the same as the regular 3. No more special seats, steering wheel, shift knob, etc... it was all identical to the regular cars aside from some questionable fabric choices. Yeah, it has 100 more HP and bigger wheels and brakes, but since I couldn't buy a new example of the 1st gen cars, I passed.

I wonder if the new direct injected 2.0's in the new WRX are blowing up as much as the EJ25's.

SilverFleet wrote: I am also wondering how these Ecoboost engines are holding up. I've considered a new Ecoboost Mustang, as well as Ecoboost Fusions and Focus ST's as potential replacements for my daily driver Mazda 3 for some time now. Both of my previous daily driver WRX's didn't really enjoy being daily drivers. I have really no interest in tuning them either; I just want a kinda quick, fun daily driver. Also, stock tune Subarus definitely do blow up. A friend's (surprise, surprise) 2005 Legacy GT Wagon's engine destroyed itself before it hit 100k miles. He is not really into cars; he bought it to have something that is AWD to get to the mountains because he's a snowboard instructor during the winter.

I very much like my Fusion 2.0 Ecoboost as a daily driver. I haven't modified it beyond a blow-off valve, though. (Because turbo noises.)

Anyone try out the v6 model? I sort of like the looks.. Would be in my price range in two or so years when my daily is ready to be traded in. I wish they let you for-go all the bloated stuff like "Sync".

In reply to Coldsnap:

Why do you think Sync is bloated? The sum of the parts to run it over and above the rest of the system probably weighs less than your wallet.

And there's no requirement to use it.

I'm going to Austin for the F1 race weekend. I wonder how much a ecob00000st would be for the week. Proabably out the ass because they peak prices during that week. I'll contact my girlfriends aunt and see if she can get me a local rate instead of airport pickup.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Coldsnap: Why do you think Sync is bloated? The sum of the parts to run it over and above the rest of the system probably weighs less than your wallet. And there's no requirement to use it.

Yea, maybe it's something I'd get use to. I just always had bone stock stereo in all my cars and enjoy that. I hate getting in my friends cars and they take like 3 minutes to get their phone synced and setup to put on some lame music. I'm thinking LETS GO, ITS HOT IN HERE.

Anyone know if you can turn off the fake exhaust noise through speakers?

All Sync is is a radio with a USB input, Bluetooth, and voice activation. How the heck is that "bloated"? Last I checked, most cars came with that feature.

Coldsnap wrote: Anyone know if you can turn off the fake exhaust noise through speakers?

Ugh, seriously? I am so tired of this nonsense. We are UPSET that the engineers did a trick to make something a little more fun, or sound a little better? We talk about our butt-dyno all the time, and how many threads do we have about somebody putting an exhaust on their car and it doesn't really make any power, but it sounds a lot better?

Who cares? It sounds great! Alfa tunes their intakes so they sound the way they do. Ferrari tunes exhausts to they sound the way they do. Jaguar tunes their ECUs and exhausts so they have terrific popping noises on overrun. The real deal, especially the real deal that meets noise and emissions requirements, would be very boring and terrible and then we'd bitch and moan about how all of these new cars are just too quiet, and can't they do something to make them sound a little more exciting?

Patrick George's Jalopnik post about this pissed me off, too.

The last time I drove a BMW M235i, I loved the way it sounded, but I couldn't allow myself to enjoy it because deep down I knew it wasn't real. Maybe that doesn't matter to everyone, but it matters to me. Noise is an important part of a driving experience, and a car that doesn't sound great isn't worth owning.

A car that doesn't sound great isn't worth owning. And yet, the factory made the effort to make it sound great even though the hardware wouldn't support it. And he loved the way it sounded. We're really that upset that it's digitally enhanced? BS.

I love Iron Man. I am not going to stop liking Iron Man because either in print or on screen, he isn't real. I will continue listening to classical music performed by current orchestras. That isn't real, either. None of us have ever heard "real" Mozart. All of your favorite records go through production and are tweaked and tuned and enhanced.

We always find something to bitch about, and we love our hypocrisy. At least, we better, because it's everywhere. Based on all of these stupid complaints that so many people have, I propose this rule: We only allow posts about Miatae, P71s, Alfa Milanos, and E30s. These seem to be the last "real" cars that anybody around here will acknowledge.

In reply to Lugnut:

Good point.

Rx7s, cherokees, and old fox bodies too.

I agree with the sentiment. I don't care much about car noise, it's not that I care that it's fake. But given the options between quiet and simulated vroom, i'd take silence. I run stock exhaust on my p71

Sorry, fake is fake, and I don't like fake. Mechanically manipulate the sound all you want, but don't generate it. A digital recording of a symphony orchestra playing Mozart is a capture of a real, live, analog sound produced mechanically. Electronic music is using a digital tool to make something that is inherently electronic, and I'm fine with that. It's not faking something else.

If you want to have your fake engine sound system make your car sound like Mario Kart, no problem. But don't use the electronic sound system to fake a reality that you could have made the natural, mechanical way.

I wonder if the basic v6 non ecoboost has it..

In reply to Duke:

Let me guess, you hate fake boobs too.

At first I was meh about "fake" engine noises but if yall don't recall auto manufacturers have been putting intake silencers and restrictors for years to appease old folks who dont want to hear a v8 or turbo noise yet they finally try to make it so its not to intrusive so they gear heads will enjoy the engine noise but they all claim to hate it cause its fake! I suggest you stop watching tv, stop listening to the radio, and stop watching youtube videos because ITS ALL FAKE in the same sense.

Or do like me and not bitch about it because you choose to drive an older car that makes "real" noises

Duke wrote: But don't use the electronic sound system to fake a reality that you could have made the natural, mechanical way.

Chief Mustang Engineer Dave Perciak said: With the EcoBoost engine we have both active noise cancellation and we also amplify the existing engine sound order. We don't create an artificial sound; we don't pluck one off the shelf; we bring in the real sound, process it, and play it through the car's speakers..

Emphasis mine.

I like sporty cars that sounds good. Simulated vroom vroom sounds are better than quiet, though not as good as mechanical vroom vroom sounds, IMO.

chiodos wrote: In reply to Duke: Let me guess, you hate fake boobs too.

Yep, absolutely do. They're ridiculous and make me lose interest very quickly. Give me flawed nature over artificial "perfection" every day of the week. I also hate vinyl siding with fake woodgrain embossed into it, too.

chiodos wrote: At first I was meh about "fake" engine noises but if yall don't recall auto manufacturers have been putting intake silencers and restrictors for years to appease old folks who dont want to hear a v8 or turbo noise yet they finally try to make it so its not to intrusive so they gear heads will enjoy the engine noise but they all claim to hate it cause its fake!

So... they design the intake/exhaust tract to be silent and then add "enhanced" sound back to make it interesting? How about they just make it sound right in the first place?! Maybe don't engineer the exhaust to be quite so quiet, or add resonators, or whatever it takes to do it naturally.

MCarp22 wrote:

Chief Mustang Engineer Dave Perciak said: With the EcoBoost engine we have both active noise cancellation and we also amplify the existing engine sound order. We don't create an artificial sound; we don't pluck one off the shelf; we bring in the real sound, process it, and play it through the car's speakers..

Emphasis mine.

So... they take a black-and-white photo of the nice fall foliage, then Photoshop the color back into it. Why?

Plenty of companies make intake and exhaust parts for the car, swap those out, and you've got your genuine mechanical noises. problem solved. If you're buying a EB mustang you'll probably be buying those parts anyway.