Engine Rebuild- uh, so how do you do that?

Well, I'm not quite as lost as all that. But I need some help. Anyone recommend a good book on the basics? A few, maybe quite stupid questions...

Do you have to replace the pistons, or if the old ones are okay, can you just put new rings on them?

How do you do a rebuild without doing an overbore? Don't you have to hone some material off the cylinders to remove any ridge and make sure they're straight?

What I'm getting at- is it possible to do a relatively inexpensive rebuild but end up with a good engine? I'm starting with a fairly low mileage (105,000) engine. It's a Toyota 22RE, so I won't be surprised to find it in very good shape. But I'm going to race it, and it needs a timing chain and will be out of the car, so it seems prudent to go through it.

This is for an Street Prepared autocross car (nothing says full on race car like a 22RE).

Thanks,

Ed

the first engine i ever rebuilt cost me $159 and an afternoon of my time. it was a 350 Chev and i used a kit from Northern, but it held together for at least 3 years of savage beatings and was in at least 5 different cars before i lost track of it- the stock valve springs were wearing out by then and it would only rev to about 4000 rpm, but it still ran perfect with well over 20" of vacuum at it's 500 rpm idle speed in gear .. that engine was amazing- it would somehow manage just over 30mpg in my 76 Monte Carlo if i drove it nice, and it was really good at destroying the right rear tire at will- which was the most important aspect to the 19 year old version of me. . the kit i ordered came with pistons, but since i was too broke to be able to pay a machine shop to put them on the rods, i just ran a hone thru the cylinders, hosed everything off at the car wash, and slammed it together in a couple of hours on the greasy floor of my 1 car garage..

so, yes, you can do it yourself and yes, you can reuse the pistons if everything looks good- but you will need to at least buy a torque wrench and a cheap cylinder hone..

i havent done a toyota motor so there may be something there that changes what i say.... but, i have done a rebuild on a chevy v8 with about that milage without needing an overbore. check the bore diameter when you take the pistons out and inspect the cylinder walls for any gouging, ridges, or heavy scratches. if the walls are within spec for size all the way up (most assembly manual books list this) and are consistent (no gouges or ridges etc). then just a good honing may be ok.

100k on a 22re is nothing. Why not just change the timing chain and race it and if it does break(I doubt it will) then go through the rebuild process. You don't have to pull the head to do the chain on the 22re. I just don't see the point in rebuilding the engine if it doesn't need it. I'd just throw on the new chain and use metal backed chain guides then race the thing.

I just got a fairly fresh cylinder head for 50$ all it needs is cams and rockers, you can get a good bottom end 22r block for 150$.

What type of car are you putting it into?

There's a good chance that there won't be much of a ridge and the cylinders will look good. In that case a bit of time with a dingle ball hone will take the glaze off and you should be good

The most important thing to remember is to get everything clean and take your time.

In reply to Wally:

You said "dingle ball hone".

Availability and production of a motor will affect its rebuild kit cost. Granted, they built a poop ton of 22RE's, but there are way more 350 Chevys out there. Plus, more people are building 350s, and thats why the rebuild kit is so cheap. Just be glad you aren't rebuilding something kindof rare like an X1/9 or Alfa Milano.

I doubt there will even be a ridge, I bet you can still see the original crosshatching. I would leave it alone unless you want to do the max official overbore thing. 22RE is a good motor to start with they don't get any simpler than that. Maybe just do a head job and put fresh gaskets in it and call it a day.

My challenge mg has a junkyard 5.0 in it. I did take it apart - cylinders were still in spec with 140k. Cleaned it, new bearings and rings and put it back together. All I managed to do was run up my budget a little, with probably no gain.

Another vote for a simple gasket refresh and timing chain/guide replacement.

This is assuming the engine has even compression and no/low oil consumption.

One of my first engine rebuilds was a 22RE, I bored it to the max, spent a bunch of time/money and gained no power.

oldtin wrote: My challenge mg has a junkyard 5.0 in it. I did take it apart - cylinders were still in spec with 140k. Cleaned it, new bearings and rings and put it back together. All I managed to do was run up my budget a little, with probably no gain.

I did the same for my 5.0 . . . Clean, check, bearings, rings, gaskets = done.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Great info- just what I needed to point me in the right direction.

benzbaron, it's going in a 1984 Celica.

Wally, I found some good information on the google about the "Flex Hone". Thanks for the heads up on that.

As for parts, for SCCA Street Prepared, I have to run a Toyota cam, and I'm worried about anything but Toyota pistons (you're allowed to run other pistons, but they can't weigh less- uh, how would you know until you get them? Documentation of Toyota pistons, or just using the ones that are there will save a lot of trouble).

SupraWes, not worried about the max bore at this point. But I am allowed to balance the parts. I think with an engine with this much stroke and piston speed it's probably worth doing that.

Thanks everyone!!

I'll just chime in with my fairly recent experience as a first-timer. My wife drove a '99 Neon 5-speed Sport for a while because she wanted a car that would get great gas mileage and burn regular gas. It also burned about a quart of oil every 300-400 miles. Mileage was around 170k.

Right before she got tired of it, we found the telltale green-black sludge in the coolant. I pulled the head and took it to a shop for freshening, then pulled the pan and yanked the pistons. It probably could have used new pistons, but I wanted to keep a lid on the cost. Cylinder walls showed a faint vestige of crosshatching, but also some vertical scoring. A stone type hone from the auto parts store fixed that. Bore dimension was a little close to the large end of the acceptable range, but still within the range. I cleaned the pistons, put new stock rings on the pistons, new rod bearings, torqued everything up and she fired right up. A few months later my wife decided she wanted a new car and bought the 2010 Mazda 3s 2.5. We sold the Neon to her friend at work and it's still running strong today. I might add that the oil consumption issue went away completely after the rebuild. All in all, a very positive experience. I had always done various jobs on cars, but never been that far inside an engine.

You can do it!

But you might listen to the advice of the guys on here who caution against rebuilding an engine that doesn't need a rebuild. If you're not seeing low compression or excessive oil consumption, you're probably wise to leave well enough alone. Save the rebuild for after you blow it up!

All good advice. Check out your local library. They may very well have a book on rebuilding a toyota engine. I know ours had one on rebuilding the L series Nissan engine, which is the precursor to the Z-24 engine I was rebuilding.

Once upon a time I bought a video from Summit Racing, a 45 minute tutorial on rebuilding a SBC. SBF will be almost identical but the tests and theories involved apply to any engine right down to your 5hp Briggs.

I loaned it to someone IIRC, but I'll go through the old VCR drawer; if it's there I'll mail it to you.

That said, here's my $.02 on rebuilds:

Why are you doing it? New rings, bearings and seals are always nice, but it ft runs OK just paint it. If you want to "hot rod" it do the rings, bearings etc., but add a cam, a nice valve job and a hum & buff to the intake runners for better air flow.

Do you have a camera? I would get one and take LOTS of pictures. As you disassemble the engine, bag and tag everything.

Keep things clean and in a spot that when you get stuck, confused or pissed off; you can walk away. Doing it in the kitchen torques off SWMBO and adds opportunity to lose things.

Talk to people that have done this, it's not difficult just intimidating at first.

There are few tools you will need and you can't do without them. The dingle hone is one, a valve spring compressor is another. You need the compressor to reassemble, not to disassemble.

A torque wrench. These can be borrowed from friend or Auto Zone.

Gor a shop manual? You'll nee one for torque specs and clearances.

Do you have a means to measure the bore diameters? Lemm know, I have something you can borrow.

Good luck, Dan

If you do this, bag every thing you take off as soon as you can. Label. Take pictures. I rebuilt the 2.6 Koln V6 out of my Capri and did it in a shop with some nice older guys that tried to be helpful, but lost the retaining plate for the camshaft. Put the motor together anyway based on their advice that it never had such a thing; get it all together and it's got no oil pressure. I won't tell the middle part of this story but it involved a call to Norm Murdock for a replacement crankshaft that needed to be turned as well as another set of main and rod bearings.

It's not actually hard, but you can't have enough light, enough bags, enough pictures, et cetera. I wouldn't attempt this if you can't get a nice clean workspace with plenty of visibility and ways to document the take-apart.

fast:

I've built 17 engines in various home garages. Before you tear into this thing, check the oil pressure and the compression pressure. If you have access to a leakdown setup, run a leakdown test. If not, don't worry about it if everything else is fine.

To repeat, if everything is good and you just need a timing chain, go ahead and replace the chain. Replace the front and rear crank seals as well.

One spec overlooked by many in a hone-and-ring job: Piston ring side clearance. The ring lands get wider as the bores wear. If out of spec (too large), expect excessive ring movement causing a broken piston ring and a nicely gouged bore.

My brother had one of these motors in a pickup. At 250k, the engine ran great. Unfortunately, he lives in CT and the truck rusted pretty badly so he sold it. In New England, these engines outlive the vehicles they're in routinely.

So if the engine runs fine, buy your new timing set, replace a couple of seals, adjust the valve lash and spend your hard-earned cash improving the rest of the car.

head up to the local chain bookstore and find the transportation section, they usually have the workshop how-to type books there, among them being engine-specific manuals and general "this works on most anything with a spark plug and a fuel tank" type books

fast_eddie_72 wrote: As for parts, for SCCA Street Prepared, I have to run a Toyota cam, and I'm worried about anything but Toyota pistons (you're allowed to run other pistons, but they can't weigh less- uh, how would you know until you get them? Documentation of Toyota pistons, or just using the ones that are there will save a lot of trouble).

IIRC, the Street Prep rules are pretty restrictive on replacement cams - as in "anything other than stock" is not allowed. The update/backdate provision even prohibits the mixing/matching of same-manufacturer parts unless the parts (in question) are identical to those used in other models.

For example, my Civic Dx has a D15 engine while the Si's use the D16 which has a 100cc more displacement and a different cam. I cannot (legally) swap the cam even though the rules allow the swapping of the Si's FI-system and distributor. Go figure..........

That said, unless the car is uber-competitive in the class (FSP???), it should never be an issue if it's not blatantly obvious.

That celica is sweet looking, I think someone said 3/4 monte carlo.

A clean 22re pickup will one day be worth some money as almost all of them either rot out or end up beaten work trucks.

914Driver wrote: Doing it in the kitchen torques off SWMBO and adds opportunity to lose things.

But it keeps evertything close to the parts washer and fridge

doesn't anyone ever just dive in and figure these things out any more? just tear it apart and figure out how to put it back together... if you don't want to experiment on your "good" engine, then find a cheap engine laying in the dirt at a junkyard that you can buy for $50 and take that apart and try to put it back together.

One of the most common mistakes i used to see new re-builders make is not marking the con rods and the caps. caps need to go on the same rod and in the same orientation. Mark them at the parting faces.

44

Can I ask what measured parameter led you into this rebuild?

I have been in your shoes and rebuilt engines with no tools and a dirt floor. Worked fine for the duration. I have spent thousands on others and poured love and money into the effort only to have it last less than a 1/4 mile. Life has a sense of humour!

To me, rebuilding anything is all about being able measure stuff: I took it apart because of something I measured (psi in a cylinder or oil consumption above 1 qt/1000 miles or ?????) Same thing when assembling...you need tools to measure what came apart and what you are bolting together. Did the shop really do a nice job on those bores and crank journals? Do you have a degree wheel and torque wrench?

The only real reasons to replace pistons, are if the pistons are damaged (collapsed/holed) or if the engine's bored oversize. The ridge at the cylinder top can't be checked without pulling the head, but at 105k, there won't be much. Were it mine, I'd replace the main seals and timing chain, and the associated gaskets, and I'd pull one main bearing and one rod bearing while the pan's off. And look at the crank thrust bearing. Any serious wear might be reason to go further, but you'll prolly not find much if any wear.

Big thing here is, just jump in! What could possibly go wrong???