Why do we not get a lot of the European diesel engined cars over here? Is it emissions or the companies don't think people will be them? I mean I look at the kinda mileage the diesel engined Jag XF gets or the VW Polo Bluemotion and I can't help but think that those would sell pretty well with the price of gas rising like it is.
Keep in mind the UK gallon is larger than ours, that helps their ratings.
But I totally agree. I'd love a diesel Subaru Legacy Wagon.
Both. Plus the general public thinks diesel is a smelly, nasty, turns everything black fuel and the engines are "noisy".
Ranger50 wrote: Both. Plus the general public thinks diesel is a smelly, nasty, turns everything black fuel and the engines are "noisy".
And they are hard to start when its cold out, they don't generate much heat so you freeze all winter, they are very expensive to repair, and most of the light diesels blow up with frightening regularity.
I don't like diesels unless they are in vehicles weighing more than 30,000 pounds. They are the work of the devil.
DaveEstey wrote: Keep in mind the UK gallon is larger than ours, that helps their ratings. But I totally agree. I'd love a diesel Subaru Legacy Wagon.
Yeah I know but since there are cars returning over 70mpg...
The big XF gets 37.3 with a diesel.
Testing procedures are different as well.
I'd trade in the Prius for an Accord diesel in a heartbeat.
European regulations are much looser on particulate emissions so diesels fit their regulations well. I don't know but I have a feeling that euro regs are deliberately looser on particulates because the governments WANT diesels and their lower carbon emissions.
US regulations are much more restrictive on particulate emissions so diesels are at a disadvantage here. [Pickup trucks get a loophole so the Big 3 can remain profitable.] Cars need particulate traps and/or urea injection (into the exhaust) and there is definite resistance against urea injection (although (I think it's fine). So, very loosely, the US gets hybrids because the regulations are harsh against diesels.
I think California led the way against particulate emissions so you can thank them for the lack of diesels, as well as their other evils.
David
I just went over to www.vw.com and figured that a Jetta TDI costs $4,000 more that Jetta SE w/ base engine of 2.0L 5 cyl. These vehicles are similarly equipped.
Now, over to www.fueleconomy.gov and compare a '12 TDI Jetta to a '12 gas Jetta.
Based on their example of normal driving for 15k miles a year and 45% highway, the TDI driver will save $400 per year driving the TDI (and this factors in the higher price of diesel fuel.)
So, $400 savings over 15k miles would be a savings of $2,667 over the course of 100k miles.
Therefore, to recoup the additional $4,000 purchase price, the car needs to be driven 150k miles to hit the payback.
That is great if you intend to put those kind of miles on during your ownership period, but most people do not.
The 40 mpg hyw Elantra and Mazda 3 both come out on www.fueleconomy.gov with the same cost for 15k miles as 42 mpg hyw '12 Jetta TDI when you factor that gasoline is cheaper. Actually, the Elantra save $50 per 15k miles.
The '12 Jetta TDI will price from $23 - $26k
The Elantra will price from $17 - $24k
jrw1621 wrote: I just went over to www.vw.com and figured that a Jetta TDI costs $4,000 more that Jetta SE w/ base engine of 2.0L 5 cyl. These vehicles are similarly equipped. Now, over to www.fueleconomy.gov and compare a '12 TDI Jetta to a '12 gas Jetta. Based on their example of normal driving for 15k miles a year and 45% highway, the TDI driver will save $400 per year driving the TDI (and this factors in the higher price of diesel fuel.) So, $400 savings over 15k miles would be a savings of $2,667 over the course of 100k miles. Therefore, to recoup the additional $4,000 purchase price, the car needs to be driven 150k miles to hit the payback. That is great if you intend to put those kind of miles on during your ownership period, but most people do not. The 40 mpg hyw Elantra and Mazda 3 both come out on www.fueleconomy.gov with the same cost for 15k miles as 42 mpg hyw '12 Jetta TDI when you factor that gasoline is cheaper. Actually, the Elantra save $50 per 15k miles. The '12 Jetta TDI will price from $23 - $26k The Elantra will price from $17 - $24k
I would put more then 150k miles on the car. The Elantra vs VW is not really a valid comparison since they aren't made by the same company and VWs are more expensive then Elantras anyway. In Europe many of the small diesels are base level models.
Compare TDI resale to Gasser Jetta resale: that NEEDS to be part of the payback equation, since the resale values on TDI's are so insanely high even with high mileage. That said, most who purchase TDI's are driving a lot more than 15k a year.
To Streetwiseguy: so, you haven't driven any diesels designed after...oh, 1990?
DWNSHFT wrote: European regulations are much looser on particulate emissions so diesels fit their regulations well. I don't know but I have a feeling that euro regs are deliberately looser on particulates because the governments WANT diesels and their lower carbon emissions. US regulations are much more restrictive on particulate emissions so diesels are at a disadvantage here. [Pickup trucks get a loophole so the Big 3 can remain profitable.] Cars need particulate traps and/or urea injection (into the exhaust) and there is definite resistance against urea injection (although (I think it's fine). So, very loosely, the US gets hybrids because the regulations are harsh against diesels. I think California led the way against particulate emissions so you can thank them for the lack of diesels, as well as their other evils. David
E36 M3. Tell that to me. The person who replaced so many $3500 DPF in a month I just about singlehandedly kept the service dept open for the month, even if they were warranty jobs.
I know GM went to the urea injection in '11. Dodge I think did in '11 too. Ford, no clue, as I NEVER want to work on them after they went to the 6.slow junk.
Streetwiseguy wrote:Ranger50 wrote: Both. Plus the general public thinks diesel is a smelly, nasty, turns everything black fuel and the engines are "noisy".And they are hard to start when its cold out, they don't generate much heat so you freeze all winter, they are very expensive to repair, and most of the light diesels blow up with frightening regularity. I don't like diesels unless they are in vehicles weighing more than 30,000 pounds. They are the work of the devil.
you sir, are trolling 
Something to consider is that diesel is cheaper than gas (on average) in Europe. This really accelerates the payback period on the more expensive diesel powertrain.
To crunch some numbers, I considered a german chevy cruze. Specs: http://www.chevrolet.de/eap/Preisliste-Cruze.pdf
The LT trim level is offered in a 1.6L gas or a 1.7L diesel. The price premium is 2kEuros. This gains you a fuel economy boost from 6.6L/100km to 4.5L/100km.
Considering german average fuel prices (http://www.energy.eu/) of 1.659E/L gas and 1.535E/L diesel, this means we have to drive ~50,000km to break even on the diesel investment.
Now lets assume that you can sell the same cruze in the US with the same two engines with the same price difference (2k Euro). The average fuel prices (http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/) are now 0.778E/L gas and 0.818E/L (converted @ $1USD = 0.75E). This pushes your breakeven distance up to ~137500km.
Carro Atrezzi. Or the OP fomerly known as A401CJ wrote:Streetwiseguy wrote:you sir, are trollingRanger50 wrote: Both. Plus the general public thinks diesel is a smelly, nasty, turns everything black fuel and the engines are "noisy".And they are hard to start when its cold out, they don't generate much heat so you freeze all winter, they are very expensive to repair, and most of the light diesels blow up with frightening regularity. I don't like diesels unless they are in vehicles weighing more than 30,000 pounds. They are the work of the devil.
Well, I might very well be trolling, but I firmly believe in what I'm trolling about. Hateful, stinky things. However, I believe in 'Live and let live", so I'll leave you oil burners alone. Enjoy removing your intake manifolds- the torch method of cleaning actually looks like fun. Not so sure about the camshaft failures, though.
Well, I might very well be trolling, but I firmly believe in what I'm trolling about.
magazine material. 
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