Expanding my search to subarus opinions wanted.

Originally looking at just minivans (still am) and not finding any to really that meet my price point that aren't crap I decided to check out subaru legacy/outback wagons.

I found a couple that are worth checking out I think...

https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/d/2002-subaru-outback-awd/6475050844.html

https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/d/2005-subaru-legacy-wagon-awd/6460892261.html

I've read that the awd systems for the automatics is different than manual trans. Is that true and is it just different or is the autotragic awd inferior?

Thanks

Went and looked at both. The 2002 had golf ball sized holes in the bottom corner of the door opening on the chassis. Never seen rust there on a car before. Same exact spot on both sides. 

Other than that it seemed like a good car. Steering felt heavier than what I'm used to. 

Wasn't able to drive the '05. The exterior looked ok. Some bumps and bruises from what looked like bad parralel parking. 

Did the rust look like this? This too was a Cincinnati car

iirc subaru awd is 50/50 for all manuals except sti, 60/40 for auto, 45/55 for wrx(fxt) auto and 41/59 for STI

My 04 outback was ok. Decent enough appliance, but the rust liked to show up in the strangest places. 

Like the drivers side strut on the hatch. Not only did the knuckle on the strut rust apart, but where it attaches to the car was rotted out as well. 

The automatic trans gave up the ghost around 150k, and it got sold to webuyanycar because I couldn't be bothered with Craigslist. 

I really preferred my 99 Forrester, more cargo space, better visibility for me, aside from the brake caliper brackets being rusted solid, was pretty reliable as well. 

Subarus like to rust, period.

John Welsh said:

Did the rust look like this? This too was a Cincinnati car

Yep. that spot on both rear doors. Never seen rust there on a car and I've owned some rusty cars. Car looked rust free til you opened those back doors.

markwemple said:

Subarus like to rust, period.

and I'm ok with that but I thought I read somewhere the rear shock towers on these rust out leaving the car not safe to be driven or unable to be driven.

RevRico said:

My 04 outback was ok. Decent enough appliance, but the rust liked to show up in the strangest places. 

Like the drivers side strut on the hatch. Not only did the knuckle on the strut rust apart, but where it attaches to the car was rotted out as well. 

The automatic trans gave up the ghost around 150k, and it got sold to webuyanycar because I couldn't be bothered with Craigslist. 

I really preferred my 99 Forrester, more cargo space, better visibility for me, aside from the brake caliper brackets being rusted solid, was pretty reliable as well. 

I've looked at foresters too but they're all beat to E36 M3 or have crazy high miles. I really like the headroom in them.

Worst part about the rust is that you have to go to Subaru for most panels. Yeah, rear shock towers can rust out. Also fuel and brake lines.

The rear shock towers are more of an Impreza thing from what I can tell. The Legacy/Outback are better for it, but you get that weird dogleg rust instead where the snow and ice build up as you drive.

They also like to leak.  Watch out for head gaskets, with external oil leaks on the single cam ones, and internal exhaust to coolant failures on the dohc's.  Changing the gasket isn't too bad; you can do it with the engine in the car.  

Other stuff - my 01 legacy needed wheel bearings all around, and the fronts are a pain to change because they're press-in.  The rears are an assembly, but still tough to change due to rust.  Everything else is pretty standard and easy to work on.  Its slow and boring to drive, but reliable and unstoppable in snow.  

I just moved up from an 04 (same as the 02) Legacy to an 07 (same generation as the 05) and the newer generation is a lot nicer. The cars are very similar underneath with identical rear suspension and slightly different in the front using the same drivetrains just updated. The newer generation is a lot quieter when it comes to wind and road noise and things just feel a lot nicer (doors closing, less rattles etc.). Both can have the head gaskets weep oil but don't tend to fail outright like the earlier dual overhead cam EJ25's did so you aren't forced to fix it right away, I think some people just ignore it and top up the oil. The NA cars are definitely slow but can still be fun to drive and can be setup to be pretty neutral, a bit of trail braking will bring the back end out. I've actually had mine out for open lapping at our local track along with running it in our rallycross series. I feel like the newer generation doesn't rust as bad but maybe they are just newer and it's hiding under the surface, time will tell. 

Rear shock tower rust is not a thing on either of these generations, mainly because there are no rear shock towers (multi link suspension unlike the 07 and earlier impreza's of this era with struts in the back).

Edit - I found my 04 had pretty light steering until the U-joint went in the steering column, at that point it was heavy but not consistently heavy (depending on where the wheel was pointed the weight would go up and down) so there could be an issue there on the 02 you drove.

Adam

I love me some Subaru in general but if you are looking for practicality and as little frustration in ownership as possible, it's definitely not on the same level as the vans you were looking at. 

Vigo said:

I love me some Subaru in general but if you are looking for practicality and as little frustration in ownership as possible, it's definitely not on the same level as the vans you were looking at. 

Agreed. Minivans do seem to check most if not all the boxes.

I've had extensive experience with four different Subarus. First was an '02 wrx. I loved that car. Had about 190k miles on it when I finally got bored with it. I think the center viscous diff eventually wore out and became an open diff but I didn't realize that until long after it was gone.

Next was my parents '02 Forester with the 2.5 NA engine. It was a great reliable car too. Changed the head gaskets on it at ~100k miles. It definitely needed that. They lost it when it was totalled by t-bone

My current is an 01 Forester with 190k miles. I'm planning on doing it's second head gasket/ timing belt change. Even though it's battle scared and hail damaged I love this car and plan to drive it until I can no longer get parts to keep it going. It's slow as hell but I'd trust it go anywhere.

My parents' car is an 08 outback with 140k miles. I hate this car. Yes it's quieter. Yes it's quicker. Yes it gets better gas mileage than the older cars. But I just hate driving it. They've lost that driving dynamic that made them so fun to drive. It's just plain boring. Not only that but working on it is not a joy like the old cars. Everything seems more difficult. Another infuriating feature is that when you're catalytic converter goes bad (and every Subaru's does lol) and sets the CEL you no longer have use of the cruise control! I also feel that the interior quality is not what it used to be. They've spent more time making things look "better" but the materials suck. Lots of hard bangy plastic surfaces. The seats are getting holes worn into them. In contrast, my Forester's seats look pristine with an extra 50k miles and 7 more years of age! In the outback, surfaces that you touch seem to collect all of your bodily oils and dirt on them. The armrests and stay belts/ buckles look hideous.

I guess you could say I'm partial to the older cars. Personally I feel the early to mid 2000s are the pinnacle of Subaru, all things considered. Stick with a GD chassis Impreza, SF/SG/SH Forester, or a pre '05 legacy/outback.

I have an 05 Outback 3.0R wagon. Bought it with a bad transmission. It's been a bit of a money pit. The driveshaft has to be replaced when the universal joint goes, the heater lines are metal and rust $600 at the shop to replace, it tries to kill you by ghostwalking on icy roads and it doesn't get the worlds best gas mileage. But it starts everytime and deals with snow like it isn't there.

If you can find a rust free manual with history on timing belt/water pump and no fluid leaks go for it.  We found two, one for my son and one for me.  They are great cars, ours are 98 & 99 with the twin overhead cam motor.  No one likes these but they pull nice at higher revs.  Problems on these get expensive but a real nice handling, useful car.

In reply to freetors :

The interior quality is worse on the new ones?  Wow, that's really setting the bar low then, as the interior quality on the old ones was pretty horrible.

My winter beater is an 03 WRX Wagon.  Its a great car for a beater.  I am tempted to replace it with a Forester or Baja because its pretty small, IE we bought a rug at Ikea and couldnt fit it in the WRX but could fit it in the little lady's Kia Optima.  

When I buy one, I will spend the extra money on one from the south, they are easy enough to find with no rust, and everything in Wisconsin is rotted.  

docwyte said:

In reply to freetors :

The interior quality is worse on the new ones?  Wow, that's really setting the bar low then, as the interior quality on the old ones was pretty horrible.

I'm not sure quality is the right word for it. I'm sure the magazines would have preferred the newer models. But from what I've seen, the older cars weared much better with day to day use, while being more comfortable too. But to put this into perspective, the 08 outback looks modern, has light colors, and feels more airy on the inside. The older Forester looks like a grampa mobile on the inside with like a velvet tweed fabric on the seats, a brown padded dash and other panels, and "wood" trim. This is just comparing a 17yo car with a 10yo car though. I have no experience with anything more modern than that.

Love them.  First Subie was  an '01 Outback, got it when I realized that CRV's & RAV4's were out of my price range.  Fell in love with it.  Bullet proof, never had an issue with it, kept it for a little under 2 years & 22K miles, sold it to one of my best friends.  Changed a valve cover & replaced a transmission line, other than that, oil changes & add gas.  They drove it until it died in an accident.  When I sold it, I got an '08 so I could get heated seats.  Loved the extra bit of luxe on the '08, both were 4 cylinders, not speed demons, but got it done and got good gas mileage.  Hauled everything I needed it to, may have done a valve cover gasket on it, can't remember.  2 years later and 25k miles, sold it to my cousin and got a company car and picked a '17 Outback.  4 Cylinder again, bumped up to leather interior, LOVE it.  22-23 mpg in town, hauls everything I need it too, kids love the heated back seats.  With the folding rear seats, you can get a bunch of cargo in the back, rides comfortably and tows small trailers with no issues.  Looking to take it camping with the pop-up camper this summer.

No experience with the older ones.  The wife had driven Buicks since 1981 and I had had Fords(trucks, SUVs) since 1970.  In 2013 the wife bought a Legacy and she loves it.  In 2015 I bought an Outback and it does everything I want from 20 bags of mulch.

to 2' deep mudholes.

Finally got to test drive the '05 yesterday. It drove fine except the 2nd to 3rd shift seemed to take forever and i felt a slight vibration when it finally did shift. It was a much nicer ride than the older one I test drove earlier in the week. The owner said he just replaced the u-joint and drive shaft due to a failure. It damaged the shifter and he has yet to replace it admitting he had done a short term fix using zip ties on the broken piece but had a replacement shifter but hadn't swapped it out. Seemed like an honest guy but the 2 to 3 shift hesitation makes me think I should keep looking.

I will say I liked how the outback sat a little higher than the standard legacy wagon.

Going to look at a mazda MPV tomorrow. We'll see how that goes.

We have about 20 older subies in different flavours ice racing with us,they blow up ALOT.

 Buddy brought 2 this yr,one for backup and both have rattled bottom ends and he's looking at picking up a 3rd car to week to finish our last 2 weekends.

 He got about 50 miles out of the 1st one and maybe 100 from the 2nd.