F1 2014

Holy berkeley. I had a feeling his helmet could have contacted the rear of the tractor when I saw the twitter picture (did it shear off the rollbar?!), but holy moley I didn't expect THAT bad of an impact Thank goodness the rear of the tractor looks like it has a solid slope shape to the underside. It's still a bad blow and bad news for spinal compression, but FAR better than if it had a level rear or if he had hit a foot or two further left

Forza Jules!

Why is the marshal in the tower waving the green flag?

That's my thought as well. The original press release that I cannot find said that the accident happened during a double-yellow flag track condition. AS evidenced so clearly by this video, that's complete and utter bullE36 M3!

OMG - that was horrible

Here's the video itself: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=818_1412603603

When I posted a link to this site on one of the F1 boards, someone pointed out that the flag stand is beyond the accident site and was showing a green to indicate the resumption of racing - I know all about compression from telephoto lenses making things at a distance appear closer, but don't know if I agree with that - looks to be a station at or very close to the accident site to me, I would certainly expect a yellow at that site, what do you experienced flaggers think?

the video shows double yellows, then a switch to green about 5-10 seconds before collision and before the track was cleared... Crazy.

GameboyRMH wrote: I think the next safety change in F1 might be some kind of external bumper around any kind of tractor used on track, sort of like a bumper car. This will prevent cars from going under them and maybe prevent anyone from being run over like the Canada 2013 accident. I remember a test driver lost an eye from hitting a truck a year or two ago...high-ground-clearance vehicles working on the track are becoming one of the biggest dangers.

The test driver accident was the sort that regulations can't prevent - you can't stop stupid. She hit a liftgate on a truck that was left several feet off the ground after use. They should be lowered all the way or closed.

Jim Pettengill wrote: When I posted a link to this site on one of the F1 boards, someone pointed out that the flag stand is beyond the accident site and was showing a green to indicate the resumption of racing - I know all about compression from telephoto lenses making things at a distance appear closer, but don't know if I agree with that - looks to be a station at or very close to the accident site to me, I would certainly expect a yellow at that site, what do you experienced flaggers think?

If the accident is an inch upstream, I'm no flag (SCCA) or green flag (FIA). If the accident is at or slightly downstream, I'm waving yellow (SCCA) or double waving yellow (FIA).

The number one concern is giving drivers accurate information on the location of an incident. That's why that tower was double waving yellow until the crane pulled the Sauber upstream, at which point it was waving green. This is absolutely correct. I guarantee the upstream station was yellow to cover the crane and workers. That section of the course was also known to be an accident site to all drivers (more than one lap of response before the second crash).

Hoooooly E36 M3 just saw the accident video

Bianchi's lucky he still has a head. Hope his luck holds up...

In reply to golfduke: That's about a 60mph impact. When you hydroplane and go across grass, you don't slow down.

kylini wrote:

Jim Pettengill wrote: When I posted a link to this site on one of the F1 boards, someone pointed out that the flag stand is beyond the accident site and was showing a green to indicate the resumption of racing - I know all about compression from telephoto lenses making things at a distance appear closer, but don't know if I agree with that - looks to be a station at or very close to the accident site to me, I would certainly expect a yellow at that site, what do you experienced flaggers think?

If the accident is an inch upstream, I'm no flag (SCCA) or green flag (FIA). If the accident is at or slightly downstream, I'm waving yellow (SCCA) or double waving yellow (FIA). The number one concern is giving drivers accurate information on the location of an incident. That's why that tower was double waving yellow *until* the crane pulled the Sauber upstream, at which point it was waving green. **This is absolutely correct.** I guarantee the upstream station was yellow to cover the crane and workers. That section of the course was also *known* to be an accident site to all drivers (more than one lap of response before the second crash).

Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense.

Two things that may have helped in this case:

Monaco's cranes.

Lemans' Slow Zone.

Keith Tanner wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: I think the next safety change in F1 might be some kind of external bumper around any kind of tractor used on track, sort of like a bumper car. This will prevent cars from going under them and maybe prevent anyone from being run over like the Canada 2013 accident. I remember a test driver lost an eye from hitting a truck a year or two ago...high-ground-clearance vehicles working on the track are becoming one of the biggest dangers.

The test driver accident was the sort that regulations can't prevent - you can't stop stupid. She hit a liftgate on a truck that was left several feet off the ground after use. They should be lowered all the way or closed.

Didn't she die a few months later?

golfduke wrote: the video shows double yellows, then a switch to green about 5-10 seconds before collision and before the track was cleared... Crazy.

I watched that … is it showing double yellows or is it 2 marshals both waving a yellow each ?

usually when double yellow, they are coupled together

wbjones wrote:

golfduke wrote: the video shows double yellows, then a switch to green about 5-10 seconds before collision and before the track was cleared... Crazy.

I watched that … is it showing double yellows or is it 2 marshals both waving a yellow each ? usually when double yellow, they are coupled together

That's SCCA flagging and is only used for full course yellow.

FIA only waves flags and never holds them steady. One yellow waving is accident off track. Two waving yellows is accident on racing surface. Formula 1 generally goes double yellow for workers in hot (outside of a turn) runoff areas.

Unlike the FIA, SCCA uses steady vs. waving flags. A single steady yellow is the equivalent of one FIA yellow. A single waving yellow is the equivalent of two FIA yellows. A double yellow is the equivalent of one FIA yellow plus a SC placard.

wvumtnbkr wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: I think the next safety change in F1 might be some kind of external bumper around any kind of tractor used on track, sort of like a bumper car. This will prevent cars from going under them and maybe prevent anyone from being run over like the Canada 2013 accident. I remember a test driver lost an eye from hitting a truck a year or two ago...high-ground-clearance vehicles working on the track are becoming one of the biggest dangers.

The test driver accident was the sort that regulations can't prevent - you can't stop stupid. She hit a liftgate on a truck that was left several feet off the ground after use. They should be lowered all the way or closed.

Didn't she die a few months later?

Maria de Villota. It was sometime later (a year and a half or so), and it was from a cardiac arrest that is suspected to have been a lingering issue from the brain injury.

Brain injury can have very scary consequences, even if the body looks healed...

Flagging aside I have to wonder if something broke because he went off track nose first and FAST

QFT!

Just saw the video- oh my word!

GameboyRMH wrote: Hoooooly E36 M3 just saw the accident video Bianchi's lucky he still has a head. Hope his luck holds up...

Story on crash.net confirmed this morning he is NOT breathing without a respirator.

unevolved wrote:

kylini wrote:

Jim Pettengill wrote: When I posted a link to this site on one of the F1 boards, someone pointed out that the flag stand is beyond the accident site and was showing a green to indicate the resumption of racing - I know all about compression from telephoto lenses making things at a distance appear closer, but don't know if I agree with that - looks to be a station at or very close to the accident site to me, I would certainly expect a yellow at that site, what do you experienced flaggers think?

If the accident is an inch upstream, I'm no flag (SCCA) or green flag (FIA). If the accident is at or slightly downstream, I'm waving yellow (SCCA) or double waving yellow (FIA). The number one concern is giving drivers accurate information on the location of an incident. That's why that tower was double waving yellow *until* the crane pulled the Sauber upstream, at which point it was waving green. **This is absolutely correct.** I guarantee the upstream station was yellow to cover the crane and workers. That section of the course was also *known* to be an accident site to all drivers (more than one lap of response before the second crash).

Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense.

Also the Camera angle is not giving you the best depth perception. From other angles the tower is far enough down the track from Sutil's car to be justified flying the green flag.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Advan046: The safety car was because of Bianchi's accident, not the rain. When it went out, the NBC team totally missed the second car- the SUV looking thing, which is actually a high speed ambulance. Which is the car that follows the race for the first lap, too. The extra safety car was deployed purely for Jules.

Yes I just said that in my post that you replied to. I was more along the lines of saying that if conditions were bad enough for DRS to be disabled before Sutil's crash then it was bad enough that they should have called a SC the moment Sutil crashed if not just call the race. They were past the 40 lap mark and the conditions due to rain and light was diminishing. The helicopter not being able to fly just adds a pile of you berkeleyed up to the top of what the managers of the race did towards the end of the race. Hindsight=20/20

All in all Jules was doing his best and he pushed too hard when the risks were too high. It is always a part of racing and sometimes you get away with it and others you don't. Like Simonsen at LeMans 2013 you just can't predict what will happen when you are racing. I have seen a bunch of NHTSA 35MPH crash test cars in person and am always shocked how bad the cars look. Seeing that F1 car into that tractor with that much energy, I am astounded that he is alive.

Long term look forward yes they need to either invest in cranes for each track or some car removal machine with crash barriers attached. Or some mandated maximum speed through the zone.

http://www.marussiaf1team.com/news/1035/

Just watched the race last night

Crazy conditions and the ending of the race.. came here and saw the video. Prayers that he makes out and lives to race again.

I always thought that when the tractor was out there should be a yellow flag through that section of track?