F1 2015

I guess I can't figure out if Haas has enough money to get a driver they want or if they are looking for pay drivers to limp along with for a while.

Maybe they can pay for one with the money from the other driver. HA

Hope that Maldonado gets fired so they can get all that paid driver funds then toss a blank check at some big name. More than likely the Ferrari engine deal comes with a requirement to us a Ferrari connected driver like Gutierrez. Or they can go bold for the big PR funding push and run Carmen Jorda and Susie Wolf. Imagine the funding flooding in!

Advan046 wrote: I guess I can't figure out if Haas has enough money to get a driver they want or if they are looking for pay drivers to limp along with for a while. Maybe they can pay for one with the money from the other driver. HA Hope that Maldonado gets fired so they can get all that paid driver funds then toss a blank check at some big name. More than likely the Ferrari engine deal comes with a requirement to us a Ferrari connected driver like Gutierrez.

All it takes to be a Ferrari connected Driver is for Ferrari to say so. They could make Button a 'Ferrari driver if they wanted too.

Advan046 wrote: Or they can go bold for the big PR funding push and run Carmen Jorda and Susie Wolf. Imagine the funding flooding in!

Carmen Jorda is a joke, this is what Michelle Mouton (a REAL driver) said when asked about her."When asked what she thinks about Jorda’s role at Lotus, Mouton replied: “If I would suggest names of female drivers who have what it takes to make it to F1, I’d say Simona de Silvestro, Danica Patrick, Susie Wolff or even Beitske Visser, who is performing well in the Formula Renault 3.5 series.

“These girls have scored very good results in their career. Other less successful girls have managed to climb the motorsport ladder, but that has more to do with marketing strategies and political reasons, and I am not interested in that.”"

I'd love to see Simon get a shot. she has real talent. Danica is too much of a drama queen, and while a good driver, isn't a great driver.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

It says something that Michelle sees the marketing train of Danica lower influence than her talent- which it appears she does.

Really, Danica has shown she can drive- perhaps not consistently or without drama- but she can drive.

In kind of related news- http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/two-us-teams-on-the-f1-grid-in-2016-it-could-happen/

Could we have two US owned F1 teams?

rob_lewis wrote: Kimi has said he won't race unless he races for Ferrari. Wonder if a Ferrari engine would meet that requirement? Big question is, what is their money situation like? Can they afford a big name (or two) without blowing their entire budget from the start? Since it's a developing team and developing car, the perfect scenario would be to grab a seasoned driver (Ricciardo, Raikkonen, Button, Alonso?) and an experienced but less seasoned guy to fill in the second seat. I would be a wicked move if they could pull a any of those four and all (except maybe Kimi) aren't terribly happy where they are right now. IF (and that's a big IF) they really do have the budget, I think they're looking at the right time to capitalize on some drivers who are not very happy in their current seats and could pull a major coup if they could pull one.... If Haas has developed a good chassis and it's combined with Ferrari power, they could potentially put a serious fight to Mclaren, Red Bull and probably Williams. I'd argue each of those teams has drivers looking for something more competitive..... I guess the silly season is really going to start early! -Rob

Money I am sure will help, but if Haas makes it to the grid, there is a slim chance that they will score points there first year. I do not see Ricciardo, Hulk, Alonso, Kimi, Button, or Bottas being remotely close to a deal with Haas. Ricciardo, Hulk, Alonso, and Button they seem to be fairly disappointed languishing in the back with their terrible cars this year, I do not see them going to a back marker “B” team. Kimi might be out a ride next year, but I do not see him going backwards, he could retire or get a top tier ride in sportscars. Bottas is on the cusp of winning at Williams or going to Ferrari, Haas will not happen. I would say that Gutierrez has a good chance (but he does crash a lot) Jean Eric Vergne will probably be a contender, I would say the next inline could be anybody, Alex Rossi comes to mind as a potential driver, Kevin could but I bet he is eyeing Buttons seat at Mclaren. I think the big negative right now is the Haas cars are not circulating around the track and they do not have driver lineup. Very few teams have made the uphill battle into F1 successfully. I will stand by my original comment when the announcement was made, that they should have bought team lotus, Sauber, or Toro Rosso.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Advan046 wrote: I guess I can't figure out if Haas has enough money to get a driver they want or if they are looking for pay drivers to limp along with for a while. Maybe they can pay for one with the money from the other driver. HA Hope that Maldonado gets fired so they can get all that paid driver funds then toss a blank check at some big name. More than likely the Ferrari engine deal comes with a requirement to us a Ferrari connected driver like Gutierrez.

All it takes to be a Ferrari connected Driver is for Ferrari to say so. They could make Button a 'Ferrari driver if they wanted too.

Advan046 wrote: Or they can go bold for the big PR funding push and run Carmen Jorda and Susie Wolf. Imagine the funding flooding in!

Carmen Jorda is a joke, this is what Michelle Mouton (a REAL driver) said when asked about her."When asked what she thinks about Jorda’s role at Lotus, Mouton replied: “If I would suggest names of female drivers who have what it takes to make it to F1, I’d say Simona de Silvestro, Danica Patrick, Susie Wolff or even Beitske Visser, who is performing well in the Formula Renault 3.5 series. “These girls have scored very good results in their career. Other less successful girls have managed to climb the motorsport ladder, but that has more to do with marketing strategies and political reasons, and I am not interested in that.”" I'd love to see Simon get a shot. she has real talent. Danica is too much of a drama queen, and while a good driver, isn't a great driver.

agree with the good not great … but her best results HAVE been in open wheel cars … Formula Atlantic or was it Formula Mazda … and a victory in Indy Car

I'd love to see Simon get a shot. she has real talent. Danica is too much of a drama queen, and while a good driver, isn't a great driver.

I'm no Danica fanboi, but it is hard to tell in NASCAR how much drama is really the driver and how much is for the cameras/viewership. I remember seeing a clip of Boris Said trying the mad redneck thing while racing with NASCAR, but he obviously needed more acting lessons and marbles in his mouth to pull it off. He's one of my favorite drivers and I didn't think any less of him for it-- it's hard to make a living as a race car driver and you do what you must.

What about Grosjean? He has proven that he does have speed (at the expense of several racecars in his career).

I don't think people would pay half as much attention to Danica's driving ability if she were a he, it's because she's among one of the very very few women at the top she gets so much attention. To be honest while i don't follow roundy roundy skittles racing I don't doubt for one second the skill, and specialized skill it takes. I believe year over year her average finishing position is getting better and better over her time in NASCAR.

Personally I wish that Simona could get a fully funded full time drive at a top team. She was doing well in her sporadic appearances with Andretti this year. It would be great to see her in an Andretti, Ganassi or even better one of the Captains cars for a full season and really see what she has.

Two things. I fully understand that Jorda and Suzie may not be the dream team in terms of race winning power but they definitely would bring in pay driver funds like any other pay driver.

Danica is out just because she is too old for F1 having never been in F1. It seems to be a much different political/social/business/sporting/technical environment to other race series that just being a fast driver won't guarantee success there.

Heck Haas mentioned something about trying to edge into Asia so maybe he will bring in Karthikayan and Qinghua.

Advan046 wrote: Two things. I fully understand that Jorda and Suzie may not be the dream team in terms of race winning power but they definitely would bring in pay driver funds like any other pay driver. Danica is out just because she is too old for F1 having never been in F1. It seems to be a much different political/social/business/sporting/technical environment to other race series that just being a fast driver won't guarantee success there. Heck Haas mentioned something about trying to edge into Asia so maybe he will bring in Karthikayan and Qinghua.

I have nothing against pay drivers, there have been some half decent ones in the past, people like hacks named Lauda, Schumacher, Senna, Alonso etc.

Suzi Wolff ne-Stoddart while far from a top line driver can at least pedal a car around at a reasonable pace. Jorda on the other hand is flat out useless. I never look at people in top line Motorsport and think I could do what they do, but I'll bet you could take your average club level autocross guy or gal and with enough hours they could do at least as good a job as Jorda.

As far as I can tell, she has not only never won a race in any series, I don't think she's ever scored a podium in any series she's ever been in. She was so bad that in 2014 in GP3 with a fully funded drive in the Koiranen team she was always last or fighting for the back. In the end they fired her and brought in Dean Stoneman. Same car, same team but with zero experience in the car or series Vs's Jorda's three seasons. With no expereince he took the same equipment, wone two races, finished 2nd in one race and retired from the last.

It's unfortunate in some ways that she's a stunningly attractive young woman. If she were a guy, no one would pay attention to a rich kid playing with other peoples money, we'd all think he's living the dream, but because she is such a high profile and attractive woman she is not helping the cause of women race drivers by buying a place in F1 with even less talent than Yuji Ide's and Chanoch Nissany's of the world. I wish her backers would put there money behind a Simone deSilvestra or an Alison MacCloed level driver.

I always wished Sarah Fisher and Danica Patrick would have received a great drive in F1. I remember watching them in lower series and thought they were pretty good.

In one Skip Barber Dodge pro race Danica pulled off a few passes that were impressive. When she left open wheels I was disappointed for her lost potential.

Kind of like Ryan Hunter-Reay I thought he would be good but seemed to be in the wrong places and lost his way. Or Kamui Kobayashi who I think deserved to stay in F1. Bottas' performance reminds me of him.

I have seen Danica race from WAY back when she was in different support series (Formula Atlantic, I think)usually scrambling around mid pack.

How does a mid pack driver in a support series end up in the main show and considered a good driver?

Don't get me wrong, I think she can drive a car better than I can! However, she hasn't done ANYTHING to make me think she should be a star (other than be a woman in a male dominated sport).

wvumtnbkr wrote: I have seen Danica race from WAY back when she was in different support series (Formula Atlantic, I think)usually scrambling around mid pack. How does a mid pack driver in a support series end up in the main show and considered a good driver? Don't get me wrong, I think she can drive a car better than I can! However, she hasn't done ANYTHING to make me think she should be a star (other than be a woman in a male dominated sport).

This is part of my point. I keep harping on about deSilvestro, but she actually won E36 M3 in the lower formula. Sarah Fisher did really in USAC. Katherine Legge won in the lower formula, Pippa Mann won in Lights. All of them showed real talent before making it to Indy car.

Not every one who makes it to the top has dominated in the lower formula. Perez didn't win much before getting to F1, but I don't think anyone would question his right to be there. These women really did have talent and showed it.

Danica as far as I can tell didn't win anything at all prior to getting to Indy car. She made it there because she is a stunner to look at and had great backing and management. Also lets be honest when she got to Indy car in 05 the series was not in the best of shape and really needed the publicity. Now, to her credit, she did do a respectable job and did win an Indy car race, it may have been on strategy, but she did win. There is nothing to be ashamed of in her career. She's done a fine job and would be considered a perfectly respectable journeyman /midfield driver if she had testicles instead of ovaries.

People like Milka and Jorda are there only because they are women. I don't belive either of them would have made it as far as they have if they were male, even with the same financial backing. I don't blame either of them. In many ways the world is still stacked against women (hell, congress still wont even approve equal gender pay) They've taken what they have and parlayed it into a position that most of us would give our left nut for. I blame the state of the sport for exploiting the money situation over talent.

I guess I just think that F1 shouldn't have midpack drivers in the field (whether they are male or female).

I think I might be proven wrong about that with some recent drivers showing up in other series and NOT doing well.

In reply to wvumtnbkr:

The thing is who is going to be a mid pack driver and who's got real talent? Sometimes you don't know until they hit F1. Perez was OK in the lower formula, but has done well in F1, not too far off Hulkenburg who many belive is the second coming.

Nigel Mansell never had much in the way of results prior to F1, and while he is a devisive character no one would doubt that he was worthy of being in F1. Probably a tick behind Senna and Prost, but man what a fighter and one of the few who could really take the fight to Senna.

Damon Hill, while not rated by many won two WDC's (dont' be silly, I know Schumacher is shown to have won the 94 Championship, but it was in a cheating car. Hill won that one)

People expected great things of Gutierez (sp?) when he got to F1, but he never really delivered.

Going back to the 80's. Martin Brundle was the only guy to race and beat Senna in the lower formula, people thought he was going to be the next British Champion, but he never won a race. Some of that is not being in the right place at the right time, but not all of it.

the Danica's of this world deserved and got a chance. The Jorda's of this world don't

wvumtnbkr wrote: I have seen Danica race from WAY back when she was in different support series (Formula Atlantic, I think)usually scrambling around mid pack. How does a mid pack driver in a support series end up in the main show and considered a good driver? Don't get me wrong, I think she can drive a car better than I can! However, she hasn't done ANYTHING to make me think she should be a star (other than be a woman in a male dominated sport).

Danica Patrick was an Atlantic competitor in 2003 and 2004. She was the first woman to score a pole position in the series, and the first woman to finish on the podium. She also led the 2004 season briefly before finishing third overall in season results

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Damon Hill, while not rated by many won two WDC's (dont' be silly, I know Schumacher is shown to have won the 94 Championship, but it was in a cheating car. Hill won that one)

other than the controversy about the Hill/Schumacher crash in the final race, I can't find anything to support this … can you provide a link to the cheaty part ?

wbjones wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Damon Hill, while not rated by many won two WDC's (dont' be silly, I know Schumacher is shown to have won the 94 Championship, but it was in a cheating car. Hill won that one)

other than the controversy about the Hill/Schumacher crash in the final race, I can't find anything to support this … can you provide a link to the cheaty part ?

A few years ago one of the '94 Benetton chassis that Schuey drove was for sale on ebay & the seller said it had a sub-menu on the steering wheel that you could use to bring up Launch Control.

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/118536-schueys-b194-on-ebay/

There were many suspected shenanigans that season & many are still butt-hurt and like Adian, view that Hill was the "rightful" champion that year. I wonder what a "rightful" championship trophy case looks like!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Formula_One_cheating_controversy

Etifose supporting my view!!! Hell doth be freezing over!

etifosi wrote:

wbjones wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Damon Hill, while not rated by many won two WDC's (dont' be silly, I know Schumacher is shown to have won the 94 Championship, but it was in a cheating car. Hill won that one)

other than the controversy about the Hill/Schumacher crash in the final race, I can't find anything to support this … can you provide a link to the cheaty part ?

A few years ago one of the '94 Benetton chassis that Schuey drove was for sale on ebay & the seller said it had a sub-menu on the steering wheel that you could use to bring up Launch Control. http://forums.autosport.com/topic/118536-schueys-b194-on-ebay/ There were many suspected shenanigans that season & many are still butt-hurt and like Adian, view that Hill was the "rightful" champion that year. I wonder what a "rightful" championship trophy case looks like! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Formula_One_cheating_controversy

Please don't encourage him.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Etifose supporting my view!!! Hell doth be freezing over!

Whoa there, don't order snow boots for Satan just yet......I'm decidedly in the "non butt-hurt" camp about where the 1994 FIA World Driver's Championship Trophy resides.

wvumtnbkr wrote: I guess I just think that F1 shouldn't have midpack drivers in the field (whether they are male or female).

As long as the teams need money, that will always be the case. Sometimes you have to take on a less spectacular driver if they help pay the bills.

etifosi wrote:

wbjones wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Damon Hill, while not rated by many won two WDC's (dont' be silly, I know Schumacher is shown to have won the 94 Championship, but it was in a cheating car. Hill won that one)

other than the controversy about the Hill/Schumacher crash in the final race, I can't find anything to support this … can you provide a link to the cheaty part ?

A few years ago one of the '94 Benetton chassis that Schuey drove was for sale on ebay & the seller said it had a sub-menu on the steering wheel that you could use to bring up Launch Control. http://forums.autosport.com/topic/118536-schueys-b194-on-ebay/ There were many suspected shenanigans that season & many are still butt-hurt and like Adian, view that Hill was the "rightful" champion that year. I wonder what a "rightful" championship trophy case looks like! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Formula_One_cheating_controversy

I wonder what "illegal" selections there were on Hill's car ?

wbjones wrote:

etifosi wrote:

wbjones wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Damon Hill, while not rated by many won two WDC's (dont' be silly, I know Schumacher is shown to have won the 94 Championship, but it was in a cheating car. Hill won that one)

other than the controversy about the Hill/Schumacher crash in the final race, I can't find anything to support this … can you provide a link to the cheaty part ?

A few years ago one of the '94 Benetton chassis that Schuey drove was for sale on ebay & the seller said it had a sub-menu on the steering wheel that you could use to bring up Launch Control. http://forums.autosport.com/topic/118536-schueys-b194-on-ebay/ There were many suspected shenanigans that season & many are still butt-hurt and like Adian, view that Hill was the "rightful" champion that year. I wonder what a "rightful" championship trophy case looks like! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Formula_One_cheating_controversy

I wonder what "illegal" selections there were on Hill's car ?

Even though I am not a big fan of the Bills (Williams), I must comment that I do not believe they were/are cheaters.

Outright cheating seems to have diminished greatly since Flavio's departure.

Just feel bad for M Schumacher and family and Juiles Bianchi and Family I wish them the best. I hope the teams are funding their medical bills.

I digress....

I agree that Danica and Jorda aren't good choices for winning races. Good enough not to make fools of your team? Well I don't know about that. Do Maldonado and Grojean make Lotus less than maybe they could be? Debatable.

I want a four or five driver fight for the driver's championship next year. Whoever has to move teams to make that happen will be a good thing. Hamilton oddly responded that Ferrari is on his list of another team he would race for if he could not be at MB. I just can't see him in the Ferrari culture. I think that would collapse.

I really really hope McLaren Honda get up to speed by Abu Dhabi.