wearymicrobe wrote: 360 will never bring big cash, they are the Mondial of this generation.
Perhaps you mean the 456?
I really, really love mid-engine Ferraris. The 360 is a fabulous car drivers car that improved on the 355 in every way but (arguably) exterior styling. But the Mondial... le sigh.
Is anybody out there doing Renegade-style engine swaps for these cars?
Me after autocrossing a 360 Spider:
Me about to head on track in an F430 coupe:
I have never got the odd love of the modern Ferrari. It is neither beautiful nor especially well engineered. It is just average engineering with berkeleying expensive materials and a 500% mark-up. That said... if the 360 gets to Mondial prices, I might have to dive in and find out for myself. Challenge-Stradale trim for me thanks.
friedgreencorrado wrote: I don't think I ever *really* understood what kind of money Ferrari folks are playing with. $28K for a crankshaft..and all the labor required to R&R it.
I've said this before here:
An F430-owning friend of mine had a $30k repair bill on his car. He pays for an extended warranty ($6k/yr) so it wasn't out-of-pocket. A cracked exhaust manifold ($10k) and a bad F1 Actuator ($20k).
Not a grassroots car by any stretch.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I have never got the odd love of the modern Ferrari. It is neither beautiful nor especially well engineered. It is just average engineering with berkeleying expensive materials and a 500% mark-up. That said... if the 360 gets to Mondial prices, I might have to dive in and find out for myself. Challenge-Stradale trim for me thanks.
Driving the F430 is simply astonishing. The speed and the sound are worth the price of admission. Clarkson was right when he said (about some other Italian car) "only the Italians could put this much sex into a car).
Plus, it's a stunning car in person.
This is his, parked in front of my house:
Scuderia wheels and lowered to Scuderia height.
That car is gorgeous in that color.
Someday I will own a Ferrari. I don't know how long I'll own it, but I will indulge that experience.
Ian F wrote: That car is gorgeous in that color. Someday I will own a Ferrari. I don't know how long I'll own it, but I will indulge that experience.
I've always thought this too. But the older I get, the more I'm unsure. I don't even know if newer Ferrari would be on my lotto-list. Possibly an older one that's near the bottom of it's depreciation curve wouldn't be such a bad idea.
I could never let a car like that get "ratty" :-/ i'd baby that thing
Per Schroeder wrote:Bobzilla wrote: 91 NSX Shortblocks, when available, were $24,999 retail several years ago. slap on a pair of complete heads for another $8k and you could have a nice long block for $33k plus tax. Right before they discontinued them, they dropped the price down to "only" $17,995.Meh, throw Odyssey engine in there and call it a day...
Unfortunately, they aren't even remotely interchangeable. ;)
Feedyurhed wrote: Well that's just ridiculous. Is it made out of gold or something? That just about seals the deal for me. I have always had a hankering for a used Ferrari but with prices like that for parts.............forget it, I'll stick with cars/parts I know and can actually purchase.
I came close to buying an F-car earlier this year. No real reason other than I'm a car nut, and well, it's a Ferrari. In the research I did I decided that the 348 is the ultimate GRM sweet spot. Cars are in the $30's (price a new Camry recently?), modern enough but the last of the simple cars - manual top, manual steering, basic manual trans. ferrari-chat.com has a bunch of guys that work on them and have figured out how to keep them going without just taking them to the dealer.
Not for everyone, got to do your research and not impulse buy a car, but don't give up the dream.....
dyintorace wrote:DukeOfUndersteer wrote: Well..... I am sooooooper close to selling a crate motor to a customer in Florida. I knocked a "couple bucks" off the price of the motor to get it sold. My argument to him is he's gonna need a set of crank bearings, rod bearings, seals, tensioners, timing belts, oil pan gasket, oil pan, ect. Why not get a fresh, 0-mile, crate motor for $XX,XXX and be done with it!I don't appreciate you sharing the content of our conversation on a public forum such as this. Just for that, I'm buying my replacement motor from Ferrari directly!
I'm a bit torn with my comment here, because I find the content of your work fascinating, and I enjoy reading about it. It introduces me to a corner of the automotive world to which few have access. However, you work in a niche industry, and your location and identity could probably be discovered with but a few minutes on the internet. I have to say that I agree with dyintorace's message that discretion is very important regarding the amount of information that you divulge, should your employer, or worse, a customer, connect the dots. Working for over a decade in retail, one of the first lessons I learned is that in a public space, you never know who is listening. Guard your words.
I'm off my soapbox.
I have a hard time understanding Ferraris too, I get that they must be a lot of fun to drive, but it sounds like almost any work done on any of the newer ones runs at least $10k, and don't you have to pull the engine to do almost anything on most of the newer ones? It seems like they catch on fire a lot more than most cars too, but I don't know if that's just because people pay more attention to them lol.
wearymicrobe wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:I would say that is an accurate assumption.singleslammer wrote: In reply to wearymicrobe: I support this as long as you only get an exhibition class, which at that point, why the hell not. You can bring it and it will be allowed to run (you know it will) and even though you kick EVERYONES ass you just don't get the #1 prize. You will win our hearts!I'll put down $100 that says the Ferrari wouldn't win overall.
FWIW, a stock 360 (owned by James Chen of Axis Wheels) won Sport Compact Car's Ultimate Street Car shootout back in the day.
nderwater wrote:wearymicrobe wrote: 360 will never bring big cash, they are the Mondial of this generation.Perhaps you mean the 456? I really, really love mid-engine Ferraris. The 360 is a fabulous car drivers car that improved on the 355 in every way but (arguably) exterior styling. But the Mondial... le sigh.
So bit off topic.
So the 456 is just weird enough that it will keep its value in the long run. Low value but that is the repair bills and the super bad window seals will keep it that way. Its not 612 ugly though.
The 360 was flat out just over produced, and that kills value and desirability in the long run for me. It does drive nice, but put it side by side with a 430 and tell me it will hold up with time in terms of looks. It is cheap though and a heck of a car for the money if you can stomach the service costs or the dips in value if you do the service yourself. Personally I really like the exeriance of driving one and can deal with the above stuff.
IMO Stuff like the 550 will only climb. The super america's will as well just due to rarity. 550 manuals are a weakness of mine, though driving a neighbors has put me of it for a number of reasons over actual livability.
The 355/348 are crazy money to maintain now. Parts are just flat out nuts, and the 348's electronics are even worse. If your going to go through the headache the 355 is the better buy but the 360 is in some ways orders of magnitudes cheaper/easier to maintain. Plus your not talking much cash in terms of buy in costs. Early ones will have the crap F1 system and parts. Sticky interior bits run 3K to fix/recoat, they all have stories at a decent price point, plus mileage is getting up there on most examples.
Now who knows what the market on these things is going to do though, I drop dead love the 308 GT4, and nobody wanted them a few years back. Now they are hot for some odd reason, same with the dino's. 330GT are another one that I love that have big price swings, and the only car that I should have stretched to buy six or seven years back when I had the chance to get a solid one at a good price.
It is late plus sleeping pills sorry.
No need to apologize - it's always interesting to hear the perspective of someone actually in the market for cars like these.
So how bad are 308 parts prices? I have always lusted over one of those....
Mitchell wrote:dyintorace wrote:I'm a bit torn with my comment here, because I find the content of your work fascinating, and I enjoy reading about it. It introduces me to a corner of the automotive world to which few have access. However, you work in a niche industry, and your location and identity could probably be discovered with but a few minutes on the internet. I have to say that I agree with dyintorace's message that discretion is very important regarding the amount of information that you divulge, should your employer, or worse, a customer, connect the dots. Working for over a decade in retail, one of the first lessons I learned is that in a public space, you never know who is listening. Guard your words. I'm off my soapbox.DukeOfUndersteer wrote: Well..... I am sooooooper close to selling a crate motor to a customer in Florida. I knocked a "couple bucks" off the price of the motor to get it sold. My argument to him is he's gonna need a set of crank bearings, rod bearings, seals, tensioners, timing belts, oil pan gasket, oil pan, ect. Why not get a fresh, 0-mile, crate motor for $XX,XXX and be done with it!I don't appreciate you sharing the content of our conversation on a public forum such as this. Just for that, I'm buying my replacement motor from Ferrari directly!
Just to be clear, my comment was entirely tongue in cheek. I do not own a Ferrari and am not in the market for a replacement engine for my imaginary Ferrari! 
93EXCivic wrote: So how bad are 308 parts prices? I have always lusted over one of those....
You can get a decent one for mid $30s. Avoid the 2 valve like the plague. You can get more power out of a Mk4 Jetta with a flash and out run a 308 2V. Go for the QuattroValve. Parts arn't terrible. Aftermarket and reproduction seems to be pretty strong with them. Belts and filters are about $20 each. Get one with a round air conditioning pump rather than the square. Easier to find parts for if you wanna stay cool.
dyintorace wrote:Mitchell wrote:Just to be clear, my comment was entirely tongue in cheek. I do not own a Ferrari and am not in the market for a replacement engine for my imaginary Ferrari!dyintorace wrote:I'm a bit torn with my comment here, because I find the content of your work fascinating, and I enjoy reading about it. It introduces me to a corner of the automotive world to which few have access. However, you work in a niche industry, and your location and identity could probably be discovered with but a few minutes on the internet. I have to say that I agree with dyintorace's message that discretion is very important regarding the amount of information that you divulge, should your employer, or worse, a customer, connect the dots. Working for over a decade in retail, one of the first lessons I learned is that in a public space, you never know who is listening. Guard your words. I'm off my soapbox.DukeOfUndersteer wrote: Well..... I am sooooooper close to selling a crate motor to a customer in Florida. I knocked a "couple bucks" off the price of the motor to get it sold. My argument to him is he's gonna need a set of crank bearings, rod bearings, seals, tensioners, timing belts, oil pan gasket, oil pan, ect. Why not get a fresh, 0-mile, crate motor for $XX,XXX and be done with it!I don't appreciate you sharing the content of our conversation on a public forum such as this. Just for that, I'm buying my replacement motor from Ferrari directly!
Sorry Dyintorace, didn't mean to broadcast your fake motor for your fake 360 
nderwater wrote: No need to apologize - it's always interesting to hear the perspective of someone actually *in* the market for cars like these.
Again apologize in advance, no sleep in almost 38 hours.
Ferrari's for me are like the "crazy" hot chick you dated just before your wife. You know that at some point you are going to come home and all of your possessions are going to be on fire but its almost worth the pain.
The other thing is the manufacturer/owner experience, I have never been so poorly treated by a dealer as a potential client when looking at a used 360/430/550. I can just flat out cut a check for the car and I made that clear to them but no test drives, no comparing two cars back to back on service history. Plus I cannot count how many complete douche nozzles I have meet at track events with 360/430's. Then same can be said for any make but they seem to be more vocal in the Ferrari camp.
Compare that with Aston Martin when I was cross shopping and they just threw the keys to a DBS at me after I test drove a Vantage just so I could have a point of reference. Hell the Aston guys still call me when they are doing a run and ask if I want to bring one of my other cars out.
The V12 GT guys tend to be really cool though. Very, very rich but not in your face about it like the mid engine owners tend to be. One of the guys at a company in the same building as us daily drives a FF, and he had a 599 GTO before that that he would use rain or shine. Says hi in the morning, comes to work in jeans and a tee shirt on Friday really cool dude. My neighbor with the 550 is nice as well, decent fellow, definite trophy wife but still he came over and had a beer in my garage when I was working on the 28' and said hi.
I've heard that about Ferrari dealers. If you don't already own one, its kinda like you can't be part of the club. Maybe see if one of the owners you know would be willing to go with you?
Datsun1500 wrote: It seems like vintage Ferrari guys are more "car guys" than the 360 crowd. I overheard one at the local cars and coffee ask why 2 "old cars" we're parked by the newer Ferraris, they were a 66 275 GTS and my 74 246 GTS.... I guess the "old cars" were not as cool?
that is the crowd I cater to. We do alot in the older stuff, the 246s, 512bb carbed/injected, 365s, 330s. 308s are the typical stuff. The 348s and 355s are becoming more common.
Duke - Looking over the parts lists, is there any model or generation which seems more reasonably priced to own and maintain, or are they all unobtanium?
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