Finding a car for SWMBO

The story:  She currently drives a 2016 Suby Legacy.  She leased it just before she and the ex hubby called it quits.  Its a cheap lease - something like $183/mo so its not like its a big burden, but a lease/finance is not what she wants.  Anything to help her debt/income ratio for home purchase reasons is good.  So once the lease is up (November) she wants a cash-bought something.

Needs:

- 4 doors.  No micro cars.  With her, me, her son, and a large dog, she's hoping for mid-size.  So... Camry, not Corolla.  Accord, not Civic.  She's also a singer so she often carries a PA system to gigs.  Its not a huge system, but wagon/hatch/CUV might be nicer than trunk.
- bigger on the inside.  I don't mean she needs a Tardis, but something that the interior space is larger than the exterior dimensions suggest.  For example, a modern Camry has as much interior room as a Caprice from the 80s, but it has a much smaller footprint.
- good mileage.  Current tested MPG on her Legacy is 34-38 on the highway.  Doesn't have to be that good, but over 30 would be lovely
- manual preferred but only mildly.
- She prefers AWD; mostly because of her love of Subys.  I am working on loosening her up on that requirement.  She doesn't need it, but I'm sure there are enough AWD offerings in this category that we could at least lean strongly in that direction
- something safe.  She has a 4 year old son and its hard to go from a 5-star rated modern Suby with 232 air bags to something lesser in the safety category.
- She is used to very reliable vehicles since her ex always insisted on new vehicles every two years.  At least if they weren't reliable, they were under warranty.  So something that won't cost big bucks every two months to keep it on the road.
- She's not much into "flashy."  So unless we convince her that a $6k Merc or Audi is as reliable as a Suby or Toyota, I think she'll not want the flash.
- budget of $6k ish

So, if you were a single mother, musician/performer carrying a PA system to gigs, enjoy road trips, and are replacing a new Legacy with a used $6000 AWD car, what would you buy?

Another subaru with evidence that head gaskets have been done recently. Likely an outback wagon.

A mid-2000 minivan. Like my dad has. He is also a musician and typically takes all his bass gear and the guitarists gear to gigs. 

It may miss the MPG requirement by a few, but his Ford has been dead reliable to almost 200k and has tons of room.

Um, drop awd and get her a camry.  She's the demographic minus white hair

I presume with a sub $200 lease payment, the buyout on the Sub is horrifying, unless she put a wad down to get into it?  I would thoroughly investigate all the lease ending terms before finding a different bucket of crap.  Might be trouble/benefit there.

I'm also curious how a lease impacts the debt/income ratio. If a car payment that cheap is a deciding factor in buying a home, I would reconsider buying a home. I'm not trying to sound like an a-- with that, just my opinion regarding ability to service a debt load like a house and the ability to maintain it.

Infinity G35x

In reply to z31maniac:

I don't  think the the payment is the actual issue it is about reducing debt load when going through the mortgage process   Now that is also an interesting thing since her car is a lease she never really owned it  it is more of a long term rental and as such I wonder if it impacts things like a car loan would.  

Here is a fringe offering that might result in a good buy.   A tail of bad reputation overshadowing any good reputation.  

The Mazda CX7 was offered from '07-'12.  You will find a lot of them in your price range.  From '07-'09 the only engine was a turbo charged 2.3L.  Same engine used in MazdaSpeed3 and MazdaSpeed6.  This is a demanding, Premium requiring, high strung engine.  Good if your a performance oriented buyer, bad if your just someone who intends to drive to the mall and who wants Camry-like reliability along with the ability to neglect the vehicle.  All this engine matted to a 6 speed auto that did not seem to be tuned to the engine or very much like the engine.    As such, due to high maint costs, the CX-7 turbo gets an Unreliable rating from Consumer Reports.  For the '10-'12 Model years the turbo continued on in the high level models but the lower optioned model, the Sport, was outfitted with a 2.5L 4cyl and 5 speed auto.  This is the same 4 cyl/5 speed in the Fusion, Escape, Mazda5 wagon and more.  Solid engine.  Good reputation.  

But, the damage was done by the 2.3L's reputation and the 2.5L offered in the entry model was not enough to curb the woes of the CX7.  It was then discontinued for the new CX5 which everyone considers great.  

So, you might find that ALL CX7's suffer from steep depreciation due to the Unreliable past but the 2.5L version does not really deserve this depreciation quite possibly leaving it to be a "good deal"   Unfortunately, if it is a 2.5L model it is also fwd only.  However it has the high ride height of every other cute-ute and the owner might not really notice the lack of awd.  

Sample at a dealer. Not worth what they are asking but a sample.  

My BIL bought a KIA Soul. As much as I loathe the ugly design, I'm impressed by the amount of room inside.

Not sure if that's too small for your plans.

In reply to curtis73 :

You originally wrote:  - good mileage.  Current tested MPG on her Legacy is 34-38 on the highway.   

I figured there must be a typo and maybe you meant 24-28.  I went to Fueleconomy.gov and to my amzaement the rating is 26/29/35.  I'll be damned, you might be getting 34-38.  I'm astounded.  You will be hard pressed to get to these number with something older in the Rav4/CRV class.    

The CX7 I recommended above with the 2.5L is rated at 20/23/28 

A year ago I paid $6k for a '07 Prius with 75k miles.  Now nearing 100k, it has needed nothing.  It returns 46mpg without trying.  I enjoy it and it has the room I need. 

In reply to John Welsh :

Good point & good vehicle. My sister in law has a '10 or '11 2.5 non turbo & it's been nothing but solid since new.

Honda CRX.....my little sister had one and stuffed three Newfoundland's in it ...for what's that worth  

Patrick said:

Um, drop awd and get her a camry.  She's the demographic minus white hair

Except don't get her a Camry... get her an Avalon instead.  It's a nicer, roomier car all round, and mechanically nearly identical.  But because of the relative name recognition between Camry and Avalon, the Avalon is usually cheaper than the Camry of equivalent age and mileage.

Put a fresh set of Conti DWS tires on it and drive through rain or any regular snowfall with perfect confidence.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

I'm not sure what they put down, but it was likely mostly the ex hubby's money anyway.  The divorce is etched in stone and they have signed those "I won't touch your crap if you don't touch mine" agreements, so the car is fully hers, end of story.  It was also only signed by her, so there isn't any BS about two names to sort through.

She has already discussed ending the lease early with the dealership and they have no problems with that scenario.  It is flawless with 15k on it so its way under her mileage allowance.  She basically has the option of taking it in, handing them the keys, and walking away with a signature.

Having said that, its basically a moot point.  Its a 24 month lease.  She got the car in November of 2015, so in two months the lease is up anyway with about half the allowed mileage on the odometer.  We're basically shopping with the intent of buying something else in November after she gives it back.  She did the smart thing and went pro-active and discussed options with the dealer.  That way if we find something next week, she has the option of ditching the lease.

z31maniac said:

I'm also curious how a lease impacts the debt/income ratio. If a car payment that cheap is a deciding factor in buying a home, I would reconsider buying a home. I'm not trying to sound like an a-- with that, just my opinion regarding ability to service a debt load like a house and the ability to maintain it.

Technically, its not part of debt/income since its not really a debt.  It is however a monthly payment.  The bank looks at liabilities like lease payments.  I over-simplified.  I should have simply said that ditching a monthly payment looks good to banks.

Its not a deciding factor, but she is in the process of a complete re-organization of her life; paying off student loans (which will happen in the next 3 months), selling a ton of crap she doesn't need, etc.  Not to put too fine a point on it, but she's going from a "kept princess" to an "independent flower."  She's shedding the junk and going simple.  (which, coincidentally, I totally understand.  I've never had a car loan and my mortgage is $181/mo and I'll pay it off in 4 years)

So for the sake of this discussion, we can assume that significant motivation is in place to get rid of the financial piles from her past and start new.  Its not just a Suby payment.  The bigger picture is this:  She left a marriage where their house payment was $1200/mo and they had financed a couch with a larger monthly payment than her new Suby.  Its not about $200 a month for a car.  Its about the stupidity of a self-employed person in her position having a lease on a new car.

But again... Moot point.  Her lease is up in November, and she doesn't want to lease or finance a car.  Done.

Trans_Maro said:

My BIL bought a KIA Soul. As much as I loathe the ugly design, I'm impressed by the amount of room inside.

Not sure if that's too small for your plans.

I think I could sell it.  It is a bit smaller than she would like, but I have owned an xB and I was constantly shocked by what would fit in that toaster.  I moved a full-size couch with that thing by folding down the back seats and using one ratchet strap.

It full-on sucked in bad weather, but some 155mm snow rubber helped a bit.

John Welsh said:

In reply to curtis73 :

You originally wrote:  - good mileage.  Current tested MPG on her Legacy is 34-38 on the highway.   

I figured there must be a typo and maybe you meant 24-28.  I went to Fueleconomy.gov and to my amzaement the rating is 26/29/35.  I'll be damned, you might be getting 34-38.  I'm astounded.  You will be hard pressed to get to these number with something older in the Rav4/CRV class.    

The CX7 I recommended above with the 2.5L is rated at 20/23/28 

 

A year ago I paid $6k for a '07 Prius with 75k miles.  Now nearing 100k, it has needed nothing.  It returns 46mpg without trying.  I enjoy it and it has the room I need. 

Good call on the Prius.  I'll look into it.

I too was shocked by the MPG.  We road tripped from Southern PA to way up around the NY/VT border.  She had never checked mileage so I checked it over 3 fill ups for her.  Average for that trip was 36 and change including a significant portion of the trip being on 2-lane rural roads.  I had to double check.

I would have been more surprised if it weren't for the fact that its about as peppy as a large tortoise.

Matrix/Vibe? Tardis like--reliable and can get it in awd flavor if she really has to have it.

If you want something more GRM maybe poke around some volvo v50s/v70s and saab 9-3 sportcombis.

A friend just picked up a Vibe for next to nothing and it was in great shape.  IIRC, you can get a 5-speed on the base models and AWD on certain models, not sure if you can get both at the same time. Decent amount of room and kinda fun to drive, I like the look of the early Pontiac models. 

My wife had a Kia Soul and loved it.  There is no space in the back without the seats folded, so its a 2 or 3 passenger car with the amp on board.  FWD, but has ESC.  5 speed is available, but is designed to block all sporty intentions.  Shift like grandma or you will go nowhere.  

Of course I have to pimp out the Kia Rondo. They are stupid cheap, come loaded, FWD with ESC is good in the snow, auto-shift is the only option but its there and you can fit the amp in the back with seat up.  Lot's of space and lots of safety tech.  They are also dead sexy, kinda like a Ferrari GT4 Lusso.  

Mom has a CR-V and I can say that it is HUGE inside and as reliable as the sun.  Does everything well, good on gas, but you have to go pretty old to get a stick.  I'd skip that and get the best example you can get for $6k

Of course, when I hear someone wanting AWD, a stick, some decent room, decent MPG, good safety rating and a decent price, my #1 recommendation is:

I will cast my vote for Honda CRV. AWD is very common, good room, good mileage, good reliability. My wife has had one for many years and it has treated us very well.

In reply to curtis73 :

My question should have been more specific.  What is the buyout on the lease?  If they put down $5k, and she has paid more over the last couple of years, can she buy out the lease for less than the resale value of the car?  Even if she doesn't want to keep the car, can she buy it and flip it?

Since Bobzilla hasn't popped in here yet, I'll put the vote in for the Korean models.  Sonata or Optima are great used car values.  Reliable as gravity, cheap to buy, roomy inside, good cars. 

I know you said no micro cars, but what about the Fit?  Having owned one, I'd swear Honda had figured out how to defy all kinds of scientific laws and principals.  There's no possible way a car that small on the outside can be that big on the inside, but it is.  It's a hatch, stupidly reliable, great mpg, fun, cheap to own and maintain and will carry not only her PA system, but probably all the stage lighting too...and maybe some back up singers. 

Streetwiseguy said:

In reply to curtis73 :

My question should have been more specific.  What is the buyout on the lease?  If they put down $5k, and she has paid more over the last couple of years, can she buy out the lease for less than the resale value of the car?  Even if she doesn't want to keep the car, can she buy it and flip it?

Ah, I see.  I'll have to find out what they put down.

Knowing her, unless it presents a significant advantage she'll likely ditch it.  At this point, giving up the opportunity of a $500 profit is worth it to her to not have to go through the credit hit of getting financing and buying a car.  Now, if its $5000, I'm sure she'll saddle up.

Good point, thank you.

There should be a buy out value readily available from the lease company, unless its really low and they really want the car back to make a big profit on resale.