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barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/18/22 10:15 p.m.

Also I have the benefit of working at a dealer where the bosses like me. And we have a full time mechanic who only deals with trades and buys, and the guy is good and trustworthy. So I have more than one set of eyes looking locally for me. 
 

Good to know the newer Hondas fare better. I'll keep an eye out for them. 

On a related note, I nearly bought a dust buster van a few years ago at a pawn shop, intending fully to see it leave the ground at speed. But it needed a battery and that extra $50 killed my plans. 
Also, I really miss the old Astros that were everywhere when I was a kid. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
3/19/22 9:34 a.m.

In reply to barefootcyborg5000 :

Market plays a big role. 15 years ago anything Korean not in my garage was rare. Yesterday morning at the last stoplight before work I was one of 6 in a line of 9 cars. 

dxman92
dxman92 Dork
3/19/22 9:44 a.m.

I used Uber last month and I got picked up in an 07 Ody with 350k miles on it. Slowly falling apart but still running. Driver told me it's getting retired due to Uber vehicle regs and he is switching to a newer Sienna he has. Apparently all his Uber driving friends use Odysseys or Siennas.

chandler
chandler UltimaDork
3/19/22 9:47 a.m.

BTW; minivanlife isn't always lame

dj06482 (Forum Supporter)
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/19/22 11:15 a.m.
Loweguy5 (how many cars will I buy this month before my wife leaves?) said:

I don't know where the concern about Honda vans came from.  We had a new 2015 Odyssey EXL and it was really fabulous.  Mountains of room, decent highway fuel economy and the driving position didn't suck.

I think the much older ones had a concern about transmissions, but if it's had a good service history I would take a chance on a Honda any day.

This is my personal experience, so take it for what it's worth (small sample size, etc.). 

'01-04 are the ones that are famous for transmission issues (although I still see reports of vans with zillions of miles on their original transmissions, so who knows).  '05-06 have a 5spd auto transmission that is by all accounts a bit upgrade over the '01-04.  In '07, they received the Ridgeline transmission, which was another significant step up.  In the '11 redesign, they introduced a new 6spd transmission which is the best of the bunch in terms of reliability.  The lower trim models had the old 5spd, and then Honda eventually (I believe in 2014) switched all trim models over to the 6spd auto through '17.

We had an '05 Odyssey, which we had from 36k up to 164k over an 11 year period.  We sold it because the transmission blew.  I changed the transmission fluid every 30k (3x drain and fill, so roughly 12 qts. of only Honda's correct ATF fluid), and even changed the built-in filter, which no one changes.  It was never used to tow, etc.  Also had multiple issues with the power sliding doors over the years (I fixed them all myself).  The transmission experience definitely left a sour taste in my mouth, especially when I had done all the preventative stuff.  Being an EX, we had no issues with the VCM, or the expensive motor mounts that go with it.  The suspension was worn, but held up well, and the engine was fantastic - no leaks of any kind.

In the summer of 2020, we purchased a '17 Odyssey with 193k on it, and the transmission promptly started throwing codes (the torque convertor wouldn't lockup at highway speeds).  This one has the new and improved 6spd transmission that's supposed to be more solid. Thankfully, it had a used car warranty (even with 193k on it), so they replaced the transmission with a used one with 100k that slipped from the get-go.  So we're on the third transmission now, which has been good for the past 15k or so.  I change the transmission fluid and filter regularly, added an additional in-line ATF cooler, and am crossing my fingers.  When we bought it, we factored in if we lost either the engine or transmission we'd still be ahead of the game, and since the dealer covered both transmissions, we're still ahead of the game.  I have a car repair fund set up for this car, as we knew buying with higher mileage it was a risk.  The overall van is in amazing shape (not even taking mileage into account), and seems to have generally been taken care of.  I believe it was used as some kind of airport limo/uber/lyft type service, which explains the 65k a year in annual mileage!

From '11-14 they had a lot of issues with the variable cylinder management system, which resulted in a service bulletin: https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/web/A13-081.pdf  The issue has been seen in newer vans, as well.  I disabled VCM on ours and so far it seems to be running well, I have a pending oil analysis that should be coming back any day now.  It doesn't burn oil and the plugs all looked good, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they had fixed the issue by the end of that model run ('17 was the last year). We also had the famous spool valve (VTEC) leak, which did take out the alternator (they don't like having oil drip on them).

Timing belts vs. timing chains can be a pain, it's an expensive service if you're not doing it yourself.  And valve adjustments for the rear bank aren't fun.

Every vehicle has their pluses and minuses, I'm familiar with the Hondas and most of their issues, so I'm comfortable with fixing it.  I'm willing to take it off the road for a bit to work through the teething issues, but if you're looking for stone-cold reliability, I think the Sienna or Grand Caravan may be the better choice.  Because of the piston issues, I'd avoid an '11-14 Odyssey unless their was proof of the TSB being applied, a new engine, or something like that.

I like Odysseys, they drive well, get impressive mileage on the highway, have a ton of room, and are very comfortable.  They're not great in the snow (and the traction control is awful in the snow, as well), so I'd recommend getting winter tires if you're in a climate that sees a lot of snow/ice in the winter.  The Airlift Rear Airbags are another great bang-for-the-buck mod that I've done on our two Odysseys, they really keep the rear squat at bay, especially if you're loaded up with people/gear.

chandler
chandler UltimaDork
3/19/22 4:53 p.m.

The oddy has issues with plug ejection as well don't they? My brother swears by them but has done three fixes for that on two vans which makes me question their "reliability ".

Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter)
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
3/19/22 4:56 p.m.

 

 Clearly the answer is a LS powered GM fullsize van. Lower, add turbo and smoke tires at the school parking lot. Bonus for A-Team paint job.

dj06482 (Forum Supporter)
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/19/22 5:17 p.m.
chandler said:

The oddy has issues with plug ejection as well don't they? My brother swears by them but has done three fixes for that on two vans which makes me question their "reliability ".

I'm on the Odyssey forums a lot and haven't seen any "plug ejection" threads. Doesn't mean it's never happened, but if it was a common issue, it would likely be all over the forums.

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/19/22 5:26 p.m.

In reply to Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) :

If gas stays crazy for too long I think those full size jobs may get nice and cheap... we may be onto something. 

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/19/22 5:29 p.m.

In reply to chandler :

That 5 is giving me the feelz. I really want to lower mine when the factory struts go. And manual swap, and turbo if I hit the lottery. Is that one yours?

chandler
chandler UltimaDork
3/19/22 6:27 p.m.
barefootcyborg5000 said:

In reply to chandler :

That 5 is giving me the feelz. I really want to lower mine when the factory struts go. And manual swap, and turbo if I hit the lottery. Is that one yours?

Yes, I ordered that one new and put 207,000 miles on it. It had H&R springs, KYBs, JBR short shift, JBR RSB etc.... 

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/19/22 6:33 p.m.

In reply to chandler :

Nice. The van I'm wanting to replace is a 13 with 110 currently. Maybe if we upgrade soon I'll keep it and sell the Mercury instead... bars and struts would be a pretty big improvement on something that's already way too sporty for a van. Hmmm

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
3/19/22 7:20 p.m.

To me, one of the biggest advantages of the '08-'20 Chrysler/Dodge variants is right there in bold - they made a ton of them over a long period of time.  They made more in one year than many of the other makes built over the entire model production runs.  So while they may not always be the best driving or most reliable, what they have in spades is being incredibly cheap to get fixed. To the point where I rarely do anything myself other than oil changes.  My regular inspection mechanic can do any repairs to it for little more than what it would cost me in parts and far, far faster than I can - since they have seen hundreds of them since 2008. 

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/19/22 7:32 p.m.

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

That is absolutely a strong selling point, and the reason I helped my FIL and my sister both buy Chrysler vans. 

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/19/22 7:47 p.m.

In reply to barefootcyborg5000 :

Nothing lame about having the right tool for the job

mtn
mtn MegaDork
3/19/22 10:20 p.m.

The used minivan market has always been a tough one. There are basically 3 flavors: 

  1. Newer and not that much less expensive than a new one
  2. Rode hard and put up wet, for sale after 10-15 years of goldfish, McDonald's, crayons, and dog hair have become one with the vehicle
  3. The very elusive grandma mobile that is a really good deal, but is also 20 years old

 

It is really crazy right now. We could trade in our 5 year old Kia with 35k miles for about $6k less than we paid for it. The only reasons we're not are that we would have to replace it with something, we are emotionally attached to it (it's the AngieVan), and it is so damn good for just about everything. 
 

When we were looking, we looked at everything new and used except for Nissan. We couldn't find any of the Pacifica hybrids, but I looked hard for one across 5 states. This was right when they were coming out. We came away with the following conclusions: 

  1. The Grand Caravan base model is probably the best value in a new vehicle possible. Back then, we could have got one for less than $20k, including all dealer fees but not title/tax/registration.
  2. The Kia (what we ended up with) was the nicest by FAR. This was before Toyota came out with the current generation.
  3. Honda and Toyota tax, at that time, was very real and very not worth it. 
     

My family, including aunts and cousins, have put probably 1,000,000 miles on 6 Oddity's. So we probably went into it expecting a Honda. We were shocked at how wonderful the Kia was. 

alphahotel
alphahotel GRM+ Memberand New Reader
3/20/22 1:17 p.m.

Minivans are not cool (ok the one up-thread is) but the are perfect for carrying things that do not require a truck (I wouldn't drop a load of gravel in the back of one) which is mostly what we do.  With stow-and-go they can go from all cargo to 6 or 7 people without taking seats out.

We are on our 3rd Chrysler minivan, a 1997 Voyager, 2007 GC, and just now a 2021 Pacifica, all purchased new (we skipped the "bread box" version).  We got the 97 because at the time the only real competitor was the Ford Windstar and it (at the time) did not have the left-side sliding door.  We rented the Ford to compare before deciding and with two small kids it was a no-brainer.

We got the 2007 because of stow-n-go.  The ability to have a flat 4'x8' back without having to pick up and remove heavy seats was great for how we use the vehicle.  Plus you can fold down any combination of the four seats.  The 2007 was worse maintenance-wise than the 97 (though we also kept it longer and for more miles, it has 170k now).  Non-maintenance items included: radiator (leaked, replaced), EGR valve (buy OEM, we went through 3 aftermarket), alternator, rear A/C evaporator (they extended the warranty on that to 70k, ours blew at 77k), and sliding door lock motors (I think I replaced both of them in both vans).  It also rusted faster than the 97, had to fix the LH sliding door well before 10 years, and then the right rear wheel wheel.  Never left us stranded, however.

Interestingly we paid about the same for the 2007 as for the 97 (it was basically the same van too).  They were much hotter in 97 than 2007.

Continuing the theme, we got the 2021 in December because it is still the only one available where all seats can be folded flat into the floor.    No repairs yet ;-).  I wince a little bit at all the electronics but I guess we'll find out.

dj06482 (Forum Supporter)
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/20/22 6:45 p.m.

Just bumping this up to say I showed up in our Odyssey to pick up a used, full-size fridge for the basement and the seller said "No way will that fit in there." Not only did it fit, but there was plenty of room to spare. Averaged 25 MPG for the trip, and that included a lot of stop-and-go traffic. 

The more you intend to haul with it, the more important features like Stow & Go become. With the Odyssey, you have to remove all three seats in the center row, and the seats are heavy and awkward. Then you need to put them back in when you're done.  Third row in the Odyssey is the Honda equivalent of Stow and Go, they fold right into the floor.

Using a minivan instead of my utility trailer allowed the cargo to be enclosed, and it let me drive on the parkway, whereas towing the trailer would have forced me to take another route.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
3/21/22 8:13 a.m.
barefootcyborg5000 said:

In reply to BlueInGreen - Jon :

Shopping for a nice minivan is just way outside of my perceived self image. Basically I'm still just a rebellious teenager. 

Just remember that there are a lot of rebellious teenager activities you can do in a minivan.

Better yet, remind your wife.

Carl Heideman
Carl Heideman
3/21/22 8:44 a.m.

We've had three Hondas and drove them all past 200K.  The two earlier ones had transmission issues, but Honda warranteed them.  We'd buy another one.

My first minivan was a Windstar.  There is a reason they don't make them anymore.  I got over the pride thing with a little paint.

We called it the Flaming S***box.  Didn't keep it very long.  The people we sold it to kept the flames, then Ford bought it back from them with all the other ones they bought back and scrapped.

 

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter)
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
3/21/22 8:51 a.m.

Our 06 Ody was great right through the 2nd timing belt (low 200k) and is now in it's nickel and dime spiral. I'm about to take the roof rails off to deal wtih some rust and seal a roof seam that is leaking (known issue for high mile/year oddys). It's leaking into the fuseblock and making some crazy E36 M3 happen, it's fun. This sort of "fun" and VCM and motor mount issues, 7 sets of PAX, two door motors, new door rollers, new AC, two PS pumps (still whiny).. we got our use out of it and it's time to upgrade. But 2022 cool

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