Fire Systems: AFFF vs FE36/Halon

Looking at fire systems for my SC300 "race car" and having an interesting time trying to decide between an AFFF-based system and an FE36/Halon-based system.

Basically comparing the OMP: OMP 4.25L AFFF

And the SafeCraft: SafeCraft RS10 SFI

I'm kind of torn here. A lot of the "pro" drag folks I know are using the SafeCraft systems. But they're a lot more expensive.

In my mind, AFFF seems like the "safer" choice. It foams up, smothers the fire, cools it, etc. The FE36 systems are basically starving the fire of oxygen, which conveniently would starve me (the driver) of oxygen, too.

If the AFFF is FIA legal, that means it is the "requirement" for BTCC, WRC, etc. Or so I would assume.

Other than the pain of cleaning the car if you discharge the AFFF system, are there really any disadvantages? Servicing the system?

What are your thoughts here?

I have an AFFF for two reasons - it cleans up easily without ruining paint if you set it off accidentally... And you can recharge it yourself .

After talking to Bob at Pegasus Auto Racing, it sounds like AFFF is the winner here:

Systems must be serviced every 2 years. With many of the FE36 systems, that can involve purchasing a whole new bottle. $400 vs much less. You can keep an AFFF system for up to 10 years (the life of the bottle itself), with a hydrostatic pressure test after 5 years.

So, essentially, the care and feeding for the AFFF system (if you do it right and follow the rules) is significantly less.

Sounds like I'll be going with the OMP.

I have nothing but anecdotal evidence, and stuff I've read online, but This thread has made me think twice about Safecraft, or at the very least how whatever system I may consider is activated.

Short story is; guy's playing around on his rockcrawler/clearing brush, gets hung up in brush, friction/heat in brush causes fire, trans cooler then catches fire, guy pulls the handle on his Safecraft only to have the handle come off in his hand.

This:

Became This:

• Lee

One guy at the track this year caught fire, the Spa nozzle was found on the ground later, the heat of the fire had melted the hose directly behind it, and it came off. We actually put the fire out with bottles, as he had just come into the pits, and hadn't set his onboard system off yet. I think that when I reach the point of needing an on board system, I will want all metal lines, connectors and nozzles.

Mine is all metal lines, an nozzles, fired by c02 cartridge and manually triggered by aircraft cable... brand is E.S.S., the five liter one.

I accidentally set it off once. It works :)

I thought Halon was all gone bye-bye.

FE36 is the 'new' Halon. This may or may not be important, but the 'recharge it yourself' AFFF systems are not legal for SCCA on cars logbooked after 1/1/09. The OMP etc AFFF systems are but require a replacement bottle if discharged. I think some systems can be recharged, saving the cost of a bottle, but it can't be done by the owner.

And yeah gimme aluminum tubing over plastic any day.

Curmudgeon wrote: AFFF systems are not legal for SCCA on cars logbooked after 1/1/09. The OMP etc AFFF systems are but require a replacement bottle if discharged. I *think* some systems can be recharged, saving the cost of a bottle, but it can't be done by the owner. And yeah gimme aluminum tubing over plastic any day.

The ban is not necessarily AFFF, it is that it must have the right FIA certification. Mine does.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: AFFF systems are not legal for SCCA on cars logbooked after 1/1/09. The OMP etc AFFF systems are but require a replacement bottle if discharged. I *think* some systems can be recharged, saving the cost of a bottle, but it can't be done by the owner. And yeah gimme aluminum tubing over plastic any day.

The ban is not necessarily AFFF, it is that it must have the right FIA certification. Mine does.

Yours is a CO2 fired user refillable system? Please let me know which one it is because I really would like to get one. I'm not being a smartass, I have put off buying one because all of them I have seen that are user rechargeable are not FIA approved, thus have not been SCCA legal for post-2009.

From ESS's site:

5.0 Liter Racing System The 5.0 liter system is a racing approved system by SCCA, PRO-SCCA, Trans Am, World Speed Challenge, American LeMans, NASA, and others. This is a 4 nozzle, 3 zone system utilizing the newest t-style nozzle, bulkhead fitting, 20 ft of aluminum tubing and the other features of the 2.3 liter system. The 5.0 Liter Racing system is available as both an SFI 17.1 compliant system and the original self service system.

http://www.essfire.com/products.php

The 2.3 liter system appears to not have the self service or 'user rechargeable' caveat.

Halon (and the less environmentally hazardous equivalents) are great at putting out fires in confined spaces, but also great at severely jacking up human respiratory systems. Engine compartment maybe but never in the passenger cabin. In open spaces halon doesn't work either, it works by displacing the oxygen, so as soon as the hood/door/etc is open, oxygen gets back to the ignition source and it can light back up again. The film that AFFF makes smothers the fire, spreads out on fuel spills and floats as it's lighter than gasoline/diesel/etc so it stays covered, and cools the ignition source. We didn't call it "magic foam" for nothing, it can knock out a jet fuel fire in a heartbeat.

I used to be in the fire service, and doing truck checkouts one day, the previous day's driver didn't have the halon bottle secured in the storage compartment properly, as soon as I lifted the hatch the bottle fell out and landed on the handle. It only discharged about a pound (from a 30-lb bottle) of Halon, and I was in a very large high-bay with the bay doors open, and it still made me lightheaded for about 5-10 minutes. Granted, it was the old 1211 but I imagine the 1301 and newer stuff would still be unpleasant (Marine Corps is about the only people left with old 1211 bottles! We're working the 1301 into the system but we still have all the oldest gear...).

if AFFF is the same stuff that they use at Augusta Aerospace's assembly hanger in Philly.. I can attest that the stuff does not ruin paint or anything else. I was working the lighting at a party there when somebody set the system off and filled the hanger with 6 feet of fire suppression... instant foam party

After reviewing as much info as I could find, going through the rulebooks of the sanction bodies I have/will run with, and discussing fire systems with anyone I knew who already had one as well as some tech folks from sanctioning bodies I decided on 2 Firefox systems. While the Halon type systems are clean, the sanctioning bodies seem to be leaning toward foam for the future requirements as rules are updated. I had originally thought I'd be using a Halon type system because of the lack of cleaning necessary if the systems ever activated however after my research I decided on a the Firefox setup for my application. http://firefoxind.com/firefox.html While there are other very effective systems in the end it's a personal decision.

The Firefox systems I am installing use a bladder type system using Fire X Plus/Gem Foam. I have 2 systems in the car. A 6.5 lb. 2 nozzle for the passenger compartment (Kinda overkill) and a 10 lb. 4 nozzle system for the engine compartment and fuel tank/pump area. I have 2 separate pull type activators located within easy reach while harnessed in, and accessible by both the driver and navigator. There is a way of using one pull handle to activate both systems however I decided to run them as separate systems for a couple reasons with each system being a stand alone system. The tubing is stainless. The systems were about $400.00 and $600.00 respectively.

If the car ever catches fire and I activate the systems I'll be thinking about how it may have reduced my injuries, saved my life, or preserved my car while complaining about cleaning up the mess. As far as continued operations after a fire occurs and the system needs to be activated? Well if my car catches fire, and it doesn't burn to the ground, I'm gonna call it a day and pack it up in my trailer if I'm at a track event, or call a roll back flat bed tow truck if I'm out on the streets and head home. One car fire a day is my limit!

Here's the 6.5 lb Firefox system

The 'user refillable' systems are great in the event that you accidentally set the thing off. As clumsy as I am, that's a big plus.

AFFF is pretty amazing stuff, assuming you have the right nozzles. The old stuff the Navy used to use was fat based and a guy could actually eat it, you know, if you had to jump into an ocean or something.

The new stuff is really more like plain old soap. It's pretty easy to wash-up, just takes a lot of water.

One thing we did as a proof of concept at one of the fire training schools I went to was introduce dry chemical extinguishing agent into the spray stream of an AFFF fire hose on a very large oil fire (20x20' ish) It worked very well. Something to remember, that dry chemical and foam can mix, but neither mixes well with CO2 or Halon, when you think about what extinguishing agents the track will be using to assist from the outside of the car. Fill a car full of Halon and when they pop the hood to use an extinguisher or hose it goes poof, fill a car full of foam and it's still there.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

I have the 5L and passed NASA and BMW tech but I see that it is SFI not FIA. The trick is that you "can" refill them yourself but to maintain the certification you have to send them back for a new sticker every so many years. When I set mine off accidentally - I ordered the refill kit and did it. It was easy. The sticker is still on there and good thru 2013. Stewards can choose to weigh it to make sure it is up to snuff but no one has done more than glance at it because lets face it... who fakes a fire system? I mean, it is really the only thing in a wreck that scares me. I probaby took the SCCA and PRO-SCCA blurb at face value and I bet I can pass tech there w/o anyone saying anything. BUT - you should absolutely call first to make sure an SFI 17.1 complaint bottle is legal.

I can vouch for the nozzles and c02 charge (used as the pressure to push the foam, not as direct flame retardant) being effective - I was drowned like a rat when I got out. It is like being hosed down with a 50% Dawn liquid mix.