Focus DCT question

I went on Focaljet and Focus Fanatics to try and find some information about the DSG, but I figure somebody here is probably a good source.

My understanding so far:

The DCT is tuned for fuel economy, not performance. The latest factory tune for the transmission is pretty good (whatever that means).

Some cars have paddle shifters, some do not.

Which ones are available with paddle shifters?

Are the transmission shift points able to be tuned?

Will the transmission hold a gear near redline without shifting in stock tune?

In reply to Brett_Murphy:

1. IDK, 2. Most likely, 3. Not stock....it'll upshift.

Doesn't answer your question (so why do I post? I really don't know...), but the theory is early DCT problem is killing sales.

I think the SEL or the Titanium will have the option of paddle shift (don't hold me to it...).

Any reason not to do the 5sp (though I hear a 6sp is in the works..)?

I'm quite happy with my '12 SE 5sp.

Looks like on the newer ones it's an option for the SE... http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/trim/se5door//viewall/

OldGray320i wrote: Looks like on the newer ones it's an option for the SE... http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/trim/se5door//viewall/

That changes gears with a button on the shifter, not paddles up by the wheel.

Why not a 5 speed? I'm still looking for a car that my wife can drive that will also not make me hate life by not being able to control when and how the car shifts.

With hours of seat time in a car without paddleshifters, I found myself driving with one hand on the shifter at all times to shift gears, which is not good hand placement. Give me the paddleshifters.

While tuning is the problem, it's not just because it's tuned for fuel economy. They went out of their way to try to make it 'feel' like a torque converter automatic, including it 'unlocking' when you give it a just a little gas or encounter any type of grade. It's downright infuriating. If only they had bothered themselves to learn anything from ze-Germans about how a DCT should work. Find one with paddles to test drive. If it doesn't stay fully locked in each gear when in paddle shift mode, regardless of rpm and throttle position, then the paddles will be just as useless as they are in the Honda Fit.

In reply to Driven5:

I answered they will not from first hand experience.......stock they will upshift a good ways before the rev limiter without your input. My parents '12 also surged/chattered in reverse. They love their new '14 Fusion though.

In reply to yamaha:

I meant 'locked' in the sense that a torque converter can be locked or unlocked, and not whether it holds the gear indefinitely...The former being much more important to me personally in a daily driver on the street. Sorry for the confusion.

In other words, if I floor it at 2500rpm in paddle shift mode, do both clutches remain 100% fully engaged in addition to holding the same gear? To me there is little that kills using the paddle shifters for the vast majority of driving more than the unlocked torque converter essentially trying it's best to make whatever gear you select irrelevant. Knowing that they tried to mimic the functionality of a torque converter in the Powershift DCT automatic shifting, I was concerned that they might have carried this "feature" over to the paddle shift mode as well.

Driven5 wrote: In other words, if I floor it at 2500rpm in paddle shift mode, do both clutches remain 100% fully engaged in addition to holding the same gear?

There's no reason for a DCT trans to engage both clutches at the same time, that could even break the gearbox. One clutch is for even gears and the other is for odd gears. Some have two gears engaged at all times and let you preload a gear by pulling slightly on one of the paddles (like the McLaren MP4-12C and P1). Some engage the gears on demand which is not as quick. The amount of clutch overlap can sometimes be adjusted (as in "sport" and "race" mode vs. "street" mode), more overlap means a smoother, faster shift but also more stress on the gearbox internals.

I don't know anything about the Focus' gearbox specifically, sorry...but if it slips clutches to simulate the awful feeling of a slushbox that would be really stupid.

Sounds like this is the very small fraction of people who would appreciate a real dual auto shifted manual where you can have shifting controls.

However, most customers expected a real automatic transmission. Smooth shifts, creep, slushiness and all. That's why it's the way it is.

It does do everything it can to make it feel like an auto with an torque converter. Darned customer expectation.

I'd expect a dual-clutch robo-manual to feel much like a sequential manual with a flat-shift controller (and auto-rev-match of course), but with automatic clutch control for moving off. Finally when technology lets people who can't drive stick get a nice solid-feeling, efficient drivetrain, they simulate the awful old technology

I hope this doesn't catch on. I always thought a robo-manual would be a great option for sharing a car with someone who can't drive stick.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

Well, you call if awful, most customers expect it.

You may call in solid feeling, others may call it jerky.

And I don't see why people would want to feel what a manual feels like vs an auto.

Having driven an auto shifted manual with a single clutch, it was the worst thing in the world. The shifts were terribly slow. Although if you compared that to actual shifting, it was pretty close. The whole point of the dual clutch is to have the manual shift as fast as an auto already does.

It wont catch on. People who have them seem to prefer real autos.

FWIW, the clutch/manual trans technology is a lot older than actual auto trans technology. The gear theory for both pre-date cars by quite a bit. So old tech = manual.

I have a 2012 focus with the dual clutch. It does not have paddle shifters (I have never driven a car where I felt like paddle shifters were worth a E36 M3, always seem to be just a gimmic). I believe its available in many focuses but almost always as part of a 2k option package or something. I have had the paddles in focus rental cars, they are a gimmic (big delay between paddle push and actual shift, etc).

It drives almost exactly like a torque converter auto, except a bit worse in the following scenarios:

1. stop and go traffic - I try to drag the brake just slightly so that I can go at a single very slow speed while everyone else stops and goes. The trans on the focus cannot decide if I am trying to stop (disengage the clutch) or if I am trying to creep (engage the clutch). The result is it is nearly impossible to go slow smoothly - you almost stop, then zoom, then almost stop etc.
2. parallel parking - same issue as above but now in reverse. Makes you feel like an idiot stopping every 2 feet while parallel parking when in a regular auto you could just go nice and slow.
3. Coming to a perfectly smooth stop at red lights - I try to practice my 'trail braking' at every red light by coming off the brake so smoothly I can't actually feel when the car stops. The focus will at some point decide you are actually stopping (at about 1.5 mph) and disengage the clutch. Now the ratio of brake drag from the driver to forward push from the momentum and engine is all messed up and you definitely feel it.

When I first got it brand new 2 years ago, it would roll backwards while in drive (or forward in reverse) on slight hills before you pushed the gas pedal. Then they had a recall on the programming and fixed that.

Not a Focus, I have a '13 Fiesta SE with this transmission. Put it in drive and it is just like any automatic. Push the button on the shift lever called hill assist. It assists in engine braking and will try to maintain the speed you are driving. Apply the brakes and as you slow it downshifts. It also will hold that gear to come out of the corner. It seems to have a different shift pattern. Put the shifter in L and a whole different shift pattern occurs. Redline shifts etc.

I had a 2011 and the shifting has been improved comparing my 2013. The parking lot deal has been taken care of.

In reply to Driven5:

Ah, gotcha. To answer your question though, it doesn't stay fully engaged. Theirs acted like it would jump 2-3k rpms, while not downshifting, and then seemed to drop the clutch to engaged......just like you'd expect the surge from a TC to be like.

Heck, my parents hate performance vehicles and even they hated that transmission.....Alfa might need to take note of that.

In reply to yamaha:

Like I said, it's probably not going to last.

It's not as good as an auto, which is what it's supposed to be. simple as that.

(that, and I don't have any influence on it...)

In reply to alfadriver:

Just ribbing a bit. They've already refused to buy another car that behaves that way though.

It sounds like this transmission is worthless to me. Thanks for the input. I might drive one anyhow, just to see how it behaves.

Maybe I just need to get a fully automatic car where the shifts can be programmed (like a Corvette).

Brett_Murphy wrote: It sounds like this transmission is worthless to me. Thanks for the input. I might drive one anyhow, just to see how it behaves. Maybe I just need to get a fully automatic car where the shifts can be programmed (like a Corvette).

What you need to do is to find someone who can actually hack the software. Then you can make it do exactly what you want it to do, or more importantly, how you expect it do to.

but your last line raises an interesting question--- focus, fiesta, or Corvette.... never really thought those were all part of the same question.

In reply to yamaha:

Thanks...That's exactly what I feared to be the case.

GameboyRMH wrote: There's no reason for a DCT trans to engage both clutches at the same time, that could even break the gearbox.

Sorry for the brain fart...I meant that the currently engaged clutch stays 100% fully engaged.

alfadriver wrote: Well, you call if awful, most customers expect it. You may call in solid feeling, others may call it jerky. And I don't see why people would want to feel what a manual feels like vs an auto.

It's what Ford thought customers expected and seem to have fallen short there, since it does not appear to be going over well even within much of their target market. Try driving a VW DCT sometime, as they don't feel like a traditional manual transmission either. A single clutch manumatic can't even be compared to the VW DCT in terms of smoothness, yet the VW DCT also doesn't behave with the randomness of a torque converter automatic that Ford chose to emulate. It is the best of both worlds in my opinion, and benchmarking the VW system (instead of a worn out old Tempo) would have been a MUCH more successful option for Ford.

Ironically enough, the Powershift didn't bother me as much in my brief test drive of a Fiesta...I wonder if it actually works better in a lighter car, or if I was simply trying to take in too much sensory information to process it at that time.

My wife and I had a 12 fiesta and a 13 focus with them. Mine , the focus did not have the thing to change gears, but like others said it isn't paddles anyway its like a switch on the side of the shifter with a - and +. Not really convenient to use anyways. My wife's had less than 20k on it and had been back a few times for trans Work and reprogramming. It ended up having a leaking seal between the eng and trans that leaked on the clutches an made it act up. That's what the dealer told us anyways. They fixed that and both drove ok, like others said not good at parking lot speeds and definitely not tuned for spirited td roving but ok at speed and got great mpg. We ended up trading them both in to get down to 1 car. It saddens me as I loved the focus but defiantly don't think I'd want to own one put of warranty until they get more proven.

My 2012 SEL works just fine but maybe I have the right expectations. It is pretty much an auto without the power sapping torque converter. I would like someone to finally crack the code so I can program the shift action to my tastes but I'm not going to complain about the stock performance.

When driving a stick you probably don't notice some of the jerkiness because you are in tune with the shifting. Someone riding with you might notice a lot of the same jerky behavior that you don't because you're driving.

This generation Focus is slightly more upscale but at it's heart is still an "economy" car. Complaining that Ford's take on the technology (which is new to them) is not up to par with the European examples is kind of silly.

I agree with you mapper, I got my focus brand new for $15,999. I really liked it and thought it was a hell of a car for that price. i knew what to expect as well since my wife had the fiesta for a year and a half by then. But I know when I let other ppl drive them they thought it drove odd.