Food For Thought: 90% of People Racing Will Never Win a Race

I had this discussion with a co-worker whose mildly into watching Motorsports. They were surprised when I told them probably 90% of drivers club racing will never win a race.

To which they replied "why would you spend all that time money?"

I explained that while I've had some class wins from time to time I really care more about a really good dice with another driver. Sure my ego likes to say I won but if I'm honest I'd rather have a great dice even if it's for 21st instead of first. 

To which they asked why? 

My answer was that it's more than just results. The old adage that while we all came for the racing we stayed for the people and that it comes down to a shared experience. Being able to pit your strategy against your friends and being able to compare notes after the race about what you were thinking at that moment (better known as bench racing) is what makes it fun.

I also mentioned that as amateurs we are lucky as we have the option to do what ever makes us happy; whether that's treating the event like a social gathering or trying to be as competitive as we can on whatever budget we have but again for most drivers the weekend is really a social event.

I love playing hockey.  Love it. I am awful at it. Really bad. Doesn't matter to me. I enjoy it beyond measure. Its the experience that matters to me.

Tom1200 said:

I had this discussion with a co-worker whose mildly into watching Motorsports. They were surprised when I told them probably 90% of drivers club racing will never win a race.

Fundamentally this is the nature of individual sports as opposed to team ones.  There are fewer competitions and more competitors in each one, so statistically many fewer competitors have a chance of winning.  Comparing it to football, winning the race is statistically more like winning the Superbowl than winning an individual game.

When I attended my first semi legit hydroplane race gathering I told myself if I finished that was a win. If I managed not to finish last I would be ecstatic. I managed to place better than last in a few heats so I left feeling over the moon. 
 

More importantly as listed above I had several really good laps competing against more experienced drivers. One who showed me exactly what control looked like while he kept working an ever wider line in order to fend off my slightly faster boat by forcing me to go wide.

Why compete if you can't win? Because it's a better view than you get from the stands, and makes for better stories. 

What a great topic! I'm a lifelong distance runner.. I was once fast, but I'm now old and slow, and while I still compete, I will never win..  I used to desert race ATVs; never a podium (not even close).. People look at me weird when I tell them I don't do it to win.. Don't get me wrong- I'm competitive, but mostly with myself.. If I do well among the others out there that's awesome, but I'm not jonesing for 1st-  To be very honest, I'm just happy as hell to even be in the game, having fun, and pushing myself as hard as I dare.

Soon I plan to enter myself in some new-to-me events- a few autocrosses and maybe an HPDE or two- If I like it I may even step up to 'real' racing; I'm not getting any younger, and it's always appealed to me.  I'm pragmatically aware that winning is unlikely, but damn, I'm off the couch and having fun  

--ccrunner

ccrunner said:

I'm off the couch and having fun  

--ccrunner

T-shirt worthy quote right there. 

But at the top level of pro racing in the US, you can make money being the worst team.  Even for just running one race, like the Indy500.

In reply to 1SlowVW :

The Italian slogan on the side of the car translates as

"faster than a set of bleachers"

I bowl. I'm far from good. I struggle to maintain a 170 average. But my teammates are great and I just compete against myself as much as the next team.

I also played pick up hockey for ten years. No rewards, awards or payback (which bowling has). I was a goalie. I just wanted be good on the next shot attempt. I was a very good D4 level goalie. That's it.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Excellent! 

I was a BMX racer for many years. I could win my cruiser class (24" wheels and age break ups for those over 18 YO) at almost any ABA or NBL race anywhere in the USA,  at any level up to the UCI worlds. While in the 20 " wheel 18 & over expert class I could only make the mains at local races and maybe an occasional regional race. I remember being asked how old I was while waiting in staging once for a local main and told them I'd graduated college before anyone else in the moto was born, I got 3rd.  It was actually a lot more fun racing mid pack in 20" than it was winning cruiser almost every time right from the gate.

At some point, some wag will point out that it is a good thing that autocross, with more classes than actual entrants per event so everyone can get a trophy, is not racing.

 - Some Wag

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

My conversation was about wheel to wheel racing but  while the percentage of winners is higher at autocross the original theme applies. I'd be willing to bet 75% of drivers at autocross will never win an event.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Well.....

Any time I have placed 1st OA at a rallycross (it has happened twice now!) I always thank (heavy hitters of the season) for not showing up that month.

I can't really count class wins, there were like 9 classes until last year, when they added UTV and Constructor's classes to make it 13-14 classes.  That is a lot of classes.  When I started there were five classes.  Under 2l/over 2L by 2wd/AWD, and "4x4" which was supposed to be "trucks" but was used by someone who owned both a brand new 2004 STI and a Mazda 323GTX to enter twice and win two different trophies, as well as 1st and 2nd OA.  (This was before the rule that you could only enter one vehicle per event)

I started in SCCA racing with an ITA Capri.  I ran that for 5 years and won one race, which was due to circumstances rather than true competitiveness.  I was happy and enjoying racing.  I then took a big step to Formula Continental (2 liter formula car with wings) running SCCA National events.  I won 1 race in 4 years and finished 6th in the Runoffs in 2003.  To me that was hugely successful and justified the effort.  After that, I took a step back to Club Formula Ford (older cars), and I've been running the same car for 15 years.  It took half that time to be winning with some regularity, but now I get grief if I don't win.  I'm now a medium sized fish in a small pond, and it's not so much fun anymore.  I would intentionally run old tires to create at least some challenge.  So I've bought a newer Formula F, and I'll be racing a 'Pro' series with much more competition, and I'm looking forward to a goal of not being embarassed vs. winning regularly.

It's sooo much more fun to be really racing with someone than just winning.  

Why do if you can't win...  a fine question.  First, racing cars is cooler than the other side of the pillow.  Second, companionship of like minded people is good.  Third, progressing against other racers is satisfying, and having someone progress against you is inspiring.

I've won some, and it's pretty cool, but there can be a lot of stress if winning starts to look like a championship is a possibility...  

One of the best races I ever did was a 45 minute race, me it my IT Neon, Gary in his Sentra.  He passed me twice, I passed him three times, once on the last lap.  I have no idea where we were in class, or overall, but it was loads of fun.

I get the question and the idea, but I am WAY too competitive to stick with something I suck at.

(Won 9 lemons and champcar races with multiple class wins.  Won numerous mountain bike races)

Not bragging, because there are plenty of things i tried that I suck at and I just don't do those anymore.

Golf would probably be a good example for me.  Still do it, and still like to compete with my friends, but I'm not winning any tournaments....

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

At some point, some wag will point out that it is a good thing that autocross, with more classes than actual entrants per event so everyone can get a trophy, is not racing.

 - Some Wag

That's why all I care about is RAW time.

It looks like I'm in the minority here but I'm racing to win.  Losing is not fun for me.  I love competition whether it's driving, flag football, or chess.  I'm constantly doing whatever I can to get better or make my car faster.

wvumtnbkr said:

I get the question and the idea, but I am WAY too competitive to stick with something I suck at.

I'm glad you brought this up as I purposely didn't include this in my original post as I wanted someone else chime in on this. 

 I am a much better than average driver; 30 years ago it was a case of budget, now it's purely a case of I am unwilling to spend the kind of dollars it takes to win as well as the time it takes. I'm sure I'm not alone in this respect. 

20 years ago I ran a front running car (the D-sports racer I mention all the time) It devoured all of my spare cash and time. It stopped being fun pretty quickly.

I now have a set dollar and time threshold. I do the best I can within that threshold.

With the Datsun my fellow competitors comment about my dragging the car way further forward than it should be (some top 5s overall) That respect means as much if not more than the actual trophy.

With the F500 I'm enjoying developing the car.

Years ago I won a couple of local Rally-X championships. I even managed to set FTD. As cool as that was I got way more jazzed about getting my picture in Sportscar.

I played golf to hang out with my friends, which is what racing has become for me. Do note that unlike driving I really suck at golf.

In reply to Patientzero :

There are no wrong answers here. 

I have 3 friends running  shifter karts at local autocross so I'm never going to get FTD with the F500. I try to be the fastest non Kart, sure I like it more when I do beat all the cars but I still enjoy myself if I don't.

Tom1200 said:

I had this discussion with a co-worker whose mildly into watching Motorsports. They were surprised when I told them probably 90% of drivers club racing will never win a race.

To which they replied "why would you spend all that time money?"

I explained that while I've had some class wins from time to time I really care more about a really good dice with another driver. Sure my ego likes to say I won but if I'm honest I'd rather have a great dice even if it's for 21st instead of first. 

To which they asked why? 

My answer was that it's more than just results. The old adage that while we all came for the racing we stayed for the people and that it comes down to a shared experience. Being able to pit your strategy against your friends and being able to compare notes after the race about what you were thinking at that moment (better known as bench racing) is what makes it fun.

I also mentioned that as amateurs we are lucky as we have the option to do what ever makes us happy; whether that's treating the event like a social gathering or trying to be as competitive as we can on whatever budget we have but again for most drivers the weekend is really a social event.

 

I used to just leave whatever trophy's I was  awarded to the corner workers. 
    I'm not a cup collector. Like you I'd ten times rather have an interesting dice than get some award. 
   There are a few rare exceptions. Races that the event was a lifetime memory.  Where I diced with my childhood memory Sir Stirling ( Moss) he was who I'd read about in school. 
   Another memory event was racing at North Island San Diego. The Naval air station I flew out of.  Then to receive the award on the aircraft carrier, with a dream field of vintage cars. It doesn't get better than that.  
   The remarkable part was the dices I enjoyed during those events. What wonderful memories. 
  Those are My  Superbowl memories, My national championship 

I was a solid mid-pack driver in my spec class. I could quickly tell I'd never run at the front unless all those guys crashed in the first turn. They had a deep competitive streak and willingness to take risks that just isn't in my DNA. 

I had a couple of fun battles with a car or two in a few races. That was a lot of fun. I didn't care a bit what the rest of the field was doing while I was racing against that one other driver. 

While fun, the expense of the fun quickly outran my meager budget. Racing is a hobby for rich people, unfortunately. 

I didn't race very much and  never got any class wins. I don't have a super competitive personality, and also realized that I had a $200 car racing against some very nice cars. But there was always little side competitions that only mattered to me. When times were posted the first thing I always looked at was to see if I beat the person I shared the car with. Same car, same course, same day, so that was a very level playing field between us. Also, I would run in prepared and and my codriver would run stock class, so I would check to see how I would have placed had I raced in stock class. Prepared class was difficult because there was this one long haired hippy in a Volvo that always seemed to do quite well. I would also look at my fastest lap and compare it to everyone else's fastest lap to see if I beat anyone that i shouldn't have been able to beat. That kind of stuff felt like a win to me.

Another thought I wanted to add; with rallyx since you are on the track alone you are just driving as fast as you can, you have no idea if you are on pace to win or if you are dfl, so the driving experience is the same amount of fun regardless. 

ddavidv said:

I was a solid mid-pack driver in my spec class. I could quickly tell I'd never run at the front unless all those guys crashed in the first turn. They had a deep competitive streak and willingness to take risks that just isn't in my DNA. 

I had a couple of fun battles with a car or two in a few races. That was a lot of fun. I didn't care a bit what the rest of the field was doing while I was racing against that one other driver. 

While fun, the expense of the fun quickly outran my meager budget. Racing is a hobby for rich people, unfortunately. 

Money seems to be the common denominator for why people quit.   
      I can tell you from near 60 years  on the track. There are always ways around the money issue.  I race prepared other cars and that got me on track.  I've also shared cars and borrowed rides. 
     I completely understand those who lack that dedication or level of interest. When I played High school football I was 132 pounds and couldn't hold onto the ball so I played defensive line. My coach called me his secret weapon.  I'd block or take down much bigger heavier and stronger players.   2nd string.  Because we had a really big guy starting but he was a marshmallow.  Once the opposing coach realized that  I'd get put in and from then on my side of the line was a wall. 
  Ambition and determination can get  you anything you really want. But you have to be willing to really commit. 
    Your choice has to do with the perceived value of racing to you. Other things took priority. Nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with that. Maybe you'll be a collector or weekend hobbiest, maybe an occasional HPDE.  
whatever. It's your choice.  

In reply to gearheadmb :

Alex was relieved when I sold the Volvo