I'm thinking that a sand rail with suspension could be useful for rally cross and hooning around the sand dunes. It would also give me a reason to buy a car trailer. And a sand rail like this 3.2l Acura powered one http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/sno/4414756433.html
Nationally, no. Locally you might get some leeway depending on who is running your group. Now, if you drape some body panels over it, the game changes.
Not sure on the rules for a true sandrail, but when I was at the Solo National Tour a couple of weeks ago I saw something similar roll in to the lot to watch.
It was a mid-engine contraption with an LSx powerplant. It was street legal and had a much shorter wheelbase than a typical rail. All I know is it had SCCA Rallycross decals on it. Looked like something from Mad Max.
I'm sure it was based off a VW (at least as far as the DMV was concerned). My boss has an LSx powered long travel buggy with CA plates on it too. It's registered as 60's VW Beetle, even though there is literally nothing VW on it.
Most local rallycrosses will prob have an open class that has no rules.
I'd venture Modified Rear class would cover it? Last time I read the rules it was pretty open. I know we'd be happy to see it!
Scary fastest thing I've ever ridden is was my buddy's sand rail. 4lbs per hp, 28" of travel and you glide over 2' whoops at 90 mph
Officially the rule is productions based, fixed-roof vehicles.
Jerry wrote: I'd venture Modified Rear class would cover it? Last time I read the rules it was pretty open. I know we'd be happy to see it!
pretty sure even MR has production-based requirement. Otherwise, rallycross nationals would just be a bunch of sand rails and no real cars since there's no way an RX7 or e30 or Miata is going to beat something like that, lol.
Yes it has to be production based.
If you put a "roof" on it and window nets some local regions may let you run. There has been one in our region a few times with plexiglass on top for a roof and window nets.
wae wrote: Officially the rule is productions based, fixed-roof vehicles.
Yep, that is the official rule, right now anyway.
In reality, I have seen them run. I haven't seen one run well. Sometimes they seemed to be having fun and a couple times I saw people throwing the thing on the trailer in frustration.
irish44j wrote: Otherwise, rallycross nationals would just be a bunch of sand rails and no real cars since there's no way an RX7 or e30 or Miata is going to beat something like that, lol.
I'll repeat for posterity: I have never seen a buggy/rail post remotely competitive times at a rallycross. Severe disinclination to travel in the intended direction, even if that direction is a straight line. Violent wheelhop under acceleration, too, as well as bouncing all over the place because the sprung/unsprung weight ratio is so screwed up.
There is no class currently, but where do we lobby for one? I really would enjoy having 2wd and 4wd unlimited, and I know where there's an old Baja SAE car with a sportbike engine...
Had one at our last rally cross here in so cal. Had an ls something engine and was far from competitive. Though with a proper driver and setup I don't see why it wouldn't be fast. I think a BMW won mod 2wd that day ( we don't separate 2wd for some reason ) so rwd can beat the fwd guys.
Knurled wrote:irish44j wrote: Otherwise, rallycross nationals would just be a bunch of sand rails and no real cars since there's no way an RX7 or e30 or Miata is going to beat something like that, lol.I'll repeat for posterity: I have never seen a buggy/rail post remotely competitive times at a rallycross. Severe disinclination to travel in the intended direction, even if that direction is a straight line. Violent wheelhop under acceleration, too, as well as bouncing all over the place because the sprung/unsprung weight ratio is so screwed up.
I would assume the ones you saw weren't actually built for rallycross though. While I would assume that, were tube-frame home-built vehicles like that actually legal, someone would design one in a manner that it would be good at rallycross. There are people out there with the design and fabrication skill to make something that would work, and work well. Maybe not a sand rail per se....
IMO it's better to start with a production car anyway and just fabricate the suspension and driveline to suit whatever your opinion is.
Which, oddly enough, is exactly the direction that I wound up taking 
With that attitude, any car is as good as another since you're just going to re-engineer everything anyway. But starting with an actual car gets you niceties like pre-engineered, pre-designed, pre-produced glass, interior bits, body panels, and so forth.
I've been to enough muddy and dusty rallycrosses to never want to drive an unsealed car again. Used to run with windows down and arm restraints, that lasted until the first time I went into one of my own dust clouds and ended up streaming mud out of my now-severely-bloodshot eyes.
Sand rails are built for just that, sand. I don't doubt they can't compete in rallycross. They'd be fun but not fast. However I've been around hose shops to know that if they designed one to do rallycross, it would dominate (which is why the rules won't let them in).
Thanks for the responses guys, that pretty well answers is for me. I don't have a rallycross worthy vehicle, but it might be cheaper to pick up a beater than a sand rail. The beater probably wouldn't be fun in the sand/off road though.
How about sand rail with a VW floor pan, or a buggy? That would be production based.
icaneat50eggs wrote: However I've been around hose shops to know that if they designed one to do rallycross, it would dominate (which is why the rules won't let them in).
The rules have absolutely nothing to do with competitiveness. The classes are split by drive type and basic prep level, but there is not even a rudimentary attempt to try to achieve car parity. This is not autocross or road racing. Once you achieve a level of non-bogusness, the car largely does not matter.
The reason why they aren't allowed is safety reasons. Cars must have an unmodified roof or an OE hardtop because, in case there is a rollover and the roof fails, the liability for that failure is on a company that presumably engineered it. Likewise, the cabin must be fully enclosed, or netted over/limbs restrained, so that in case of a rollover, nothing can flail outside of the car and get crushed, and nothing can intrude into the cabin.
It's certainly not because they are afraid of the chassis dominating a single class (Mod Rear, which is a new class as of a couple years ago - used to be just 2WD). If they were worried about banning vehicles that dominate, they'd disallow Evos.
bgkast wrote: How about sand rail with a VW floor pan, or a buggy? That would be production based.
It'd have to be an actual ACVW, not a tube chassis.
If you could figure a way to slip the ACVW's shell over the pan, you could pass it off as a really, really intricate rollcage...
Really, the only guiding rules are that the roof structure must not be altered, must have OE windshield, must not be structurally compromised (nebulous, I know), and it must look like the vehicle that you're entering it as. So if you're claiming that it's a Beetle then it has to look like one. And you'd need the shell for the unmodified roof structure and windshield.
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