I've seen a bunch of folks running circle-track wheels on their BMW, Honda, and other cars designed to run hub-centric wheels. Being lug-centric, I thought these wheels were supposed to be a bad idea.
I ask because I'm severely limited in my wheel selection for the 190E race car project. I'm tempted to try some of these steel wheels, but the whole hub-centric vs. lug-centric thing makes me nervous.
Am I just being paranoid for no reason?
All automotive wheels are lug centric. The lug nuts are what center the wheel. The hub pilot is only there to make it easier to put the wheel on.
The way I figure things all of them are lug centric, some just add hub centric too.
Edit:beat to the punch
LanEvo wrote: Am I just being paranoid for no reason?
Defintely. I bored out a set of Corvette wheels for my BMW. They actually fit the hubs more precisely than the OE BMW wheels. It probably does help since the bolt patterns are a tiny bit off. But really, I don't think any cars are actually hubcentric. Hubcentric wheel spacers are very nice. The hub centric thing mostly just makes wheels easier to mount.
Make sure they are balanced on a lug-centric adapter...they work fine then.
Cool! That's brings me to my next question: any specific brands/models I should be looking at? I need 15x9" or 15x8" with an offset around ET34. Generous caliper clearance would be a plus.
I think Aero and Bassett are better made/finished than Diamond...I used Diamond and Aero many years ago.
Any chance they'll clear 4-piston Brembos on 300mm discs? About the same size as my old Wilwood Dynapro brake kit, which fit under 15x7" ET25 Team Dynamics ProRace 1.2 wheels.
You guys are all nuts. Factory wheels are all hub centric, and trying to make a lug centric wheel not shake on a vehicle that uses bolts is hard as hell. Studs and nuts, not so bad.
Streetwiseguy wrote: You guys are all nuts. Factory wheels are all hub centric, and trying to make a lug centric wheel not shake on a vehicle that uses bolts is hard as hell. Studs and nuts, not so bad.
from a centering standpoint, how is the tapered part of a lug bolt different than the tapered part of a lug nut? what kind of magical physics are at work here?
I run 15x10 with a 5-inch backspace (zero offset) aeros on my the RX7. They're very well made.
Ivr had the basset inertia wheels hold up to some incredible abuste and never whimper. I can endorse them.
Watching the debate on hubcentric vs lugcentric. Ive always assumed them hubcentric was the way to go due to tighter tolerance, but want to learn.
I have lug centric aftermarket wheels on the Civic, and they had a bit of a shake. I bought some hub centric rings in the right size (about $1 each at local part store) and no issues since then.
novaderrik wrote:Streetwiseguy wrote: You guys are all nuts. Factory wheels are all hub centric, and trying to make a lug centric wheel not shake on a vehicle that uses bolts is hard as hell. Studs and nuts, not so bad.from a centering standpoint, how is the tapered part of a lug bolt different than the tapered part of a lug nut? what kind of magical physics are at work here?
I'm not sure, but we will be into winter wheel season here soon, and anybody with cheap wheels and wheel bolts will involve quite a bit of extra time running bolts down by finger, rotating the wheel, snugging a wee bit...They are a glorious pain in the ass.
In reply to Streetwiseguy: Snug with an impact and you don't have to worry about that. My battery one starts to hammer around 70lbs. That tightens and centers the wheel, then I drop it and torque the rest of the way. I should get another set of rings for my winter wheels, but they never have them in stock when I want them.
Before doing this check what type of lug nuts you will be using. Circle track wheels commonly use a 45 degree seat angle. As per Bassetts site..
Bassett Wheels said: Bassett Racing Wheels require a hardened steel, 1" oversize, open-ended lug nut with a 45 degree seat chamfer. Before going on the track, always use a torque wrench and torque lug nuts to 85 ft.-lbs. For brand new wheels, make sure to retorque after first use because as the powder coat paint gets worn off, it can cause the lug nuts to loosen slightly.
Nuff' said...
Streetwiseguy wrote:novaderrik wrote:I'm not sure, but we will be into winter wheel season here soon, and anybody with cheap wheels and wheel bolts will involve quite a bit of extra time running bolts down by finger, rotating the wheel, snugging a wee bit...They are a glorious pain in the ass.Streetwiseguy wrote: You guys are all nuts. Factory wheels are all hub centric, and trying to make a lug centric wheel not shake on a vehicle that uses bolts is hard as hell. Studs and nuts, not so bad.from a centering standpoint, how is the tapered part of a lug bolt different than the tapered part of a lug nut? what kind of magical physics are at work here?
I never had that issue on my RX-7 or the VWs I had with non-hubcentric wheels.
ALL wheels should be snug first, then tighten.
noddaz wrote: Before doing this check what type of lug nuts you will be using. Circle track wheels commonly use a 45 degree seat angle. As per Bassetts site..Bassett Wheels said: Bassett Racing Wheels require a hardened steel, 1" oversize, open-ended lug nut with a 45 degree seat chamfer. Before going on the track, always use a torque wrench and torque lug nuts to 85 ft.-lbs. For brand new wheels, make sure to retorque after first use because as the powder coat paint gets worn off, it can cause the lug nuts to loosen slightly.Nuff' said...
I was going to mention this too. get the right nuts otherwise there will be very little surface area of the nut/bolt/whatever actually clamping down on the wheel holding it on.
With lug centric, you just have to be sure to draw down all the lugs evenly and have them fairly snug before you drop it on the ground for torquing.
Do you really want boat anchors for wheels? Have you looked at how heavy these things are? If you need custom wheels for cheapish, spinwerks is the way to go. 15x8 are a little over a grand per set. 15x10s are like 1300 per set. I dont think they make 15x9s right now but they've been considering it if there was interest.
In reply to Leafy:
They are heavy, so they don't rip the center out on the 100th 2-3g turn on a high bank oval.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to Leafy: They are heavy, so they don't rip the center out on the 100th 2-3g turn on a high bank oval.
No they're heavy because they're steel and geometry is not in their favor. Normally you can make steel and aluminum parts weight the same (because aluminum is 1/3 the weight but also 1/3 the stiffness) unless meeting the basic geometry of the part requires more material than meeting the strength requirements.
They like them heavy steel wheels in circle track because they can straighten them right out after stuffing it into the wall for the 17th time and the wheel is still okish.
I use them because they're cheap and if I have an off the wheel will bend rather than fail. I also use bias-ply tires, so I'm saving weight on the rubber.
I also fail to see how $400+ a wheel qualifies as anything like "cheapish"
I have lug centric Bassett Inertias on the J-H, been happy so far. On lug nuts: I am using the open end 'ball seat' Honda lug nuts since they are easier to find than 45 degree taper racing nuts, I torque them to 85 foot pounds. Have had no problem at all.
I am not a fan of Diamonds and yes I have bought a couple of sets of them.
DaveEstey wrote: I use them because they're cheap and if I have an off the wheel will bend rather than fail. I also use bias-ply tires, so I'm saving weight on the rubber. I also fail to see how $400+ a wheel qualifies as anything like "cheapish"
They're cheap for 13lb 15x10s in whatever lug pattern and offset you want. Which is way better than the 28lb steelies you guys are talking about, I wouldnt even consider them at that weight unless they were under 100/wheel.
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