For those selling cars on the side how did you start?

No matter how much money I make with my "day job" that money seems perpetually dog eared for the communal kitty. Is flipping a couple cars a year a way to make some "dad wants to do something stupid like go racing" money?

Not that I actually am implying I would make near enough to go racing, I just mean more money for a project car or a few similar toys of my own.

I actually grew up buying/reselling cars and had owned 5 before I got my drivers license because my stepdad had been doing it for years. But as this was over 20 years ago I have no idea how it works today.

Mostly he bought stuff that just needed to be cleaned up/detailed/touched up then resold them.

I also think at least back then he very rarely had anything for sale that would have been worth more than like 3-4k with most cars likely being less.

So anyone have any advice, even if that advice is run away screaming?

The auto market is pretty efficient, so abnormalities (good deals) don't last long.

What is your own personal value add? Do you have knowledge that people will pay for? Maybe a specific skill? A transportation route?

If your only value add is labor to detail a car you will be competing with lots of other people (and the wages are less than great).

You have to be in the constant looks for a fantastic deal. A mediocre deal won't make you any profit after you sink some time and money fixing the surprises of a used car and making it look presentable.

I've flipped a dozen cars and I'm probably closer to breaking even than I'd like to admit.

I've also sent a couple straight to the scrap yard after determining the "minor fix" advertised by the seller was much more significant and not worth the investment. These were $200-300 cars so I considered the risk from the beginning.

Both good points, the value add I think is key

I feel like I see cars listed for $1k that I'm pretty sure could sell for $2k or more with minor effort put into clean up and decent photos. I'm just never in a position to capitalize when I see them. That's not a ton of money coming back, but it can be a decent RoR so you'll have to decide what your goals are. If you want to get into repairs and stuff, the potential for big money sales goes up, but it will also require more of your time, which decreases your RoR (assuming you value your time).

If you think you'll be doing this multiple times per year, be sure and check your state's laws. Most have a limit on the number of vehicles that an individual can sell per year before requiring a dealer license.

I think it's important to know the market, and like others have said, that requires near constant monitoring. That lets you spot good deals when they come up, and gives you an idea of what it could be worth when you go to sell it. I'd also suggest you invest in what you know. So if there's a specific make or model that you have a lot of experience with, you're more likely to do well with them than a random vehicle.

In my experience, you have to do it for fun. I've made quite a bit of money doing cars on the side, but if you ad up the massive amount of time spent perusing ads, checking out cars, dealing with flaky buyers, addressing unforeseen issues with cars, etc. I'd probably have made more with a part time job.

For some reason it seems like it's been more difficult to really get a good buy the last few years.

If you're trying to do it for "FUN" and happen to make a profit, it's a good option. The Auto Market doesn't look like it's going to go anywhere but UP! There are more vehicles coming back into the resale (Wholesale/Auction) market than last year.

My Brother owns a dealership in MA., but he's doing it all. Going to Auction/Posting/Dealing with Shops, and Customers. For someone owning a Lot and paying to upkeep a location, etc. It gets cyclical. You need to have the right inventory (No 4X4's in May, or Sportscars in October).

I recommend trying to connect with a Dealer that is willing to Sponsor you under their dealership so that you can gain access to the Dealer-only auctions. The same ones that all the Retailers get their vehicles from. On Average, you can make about 2-3K profit on a 4-10K car that you buy at auction just by cleaning it up and requiring no body/mechanical.

I work in the Auto Remarketing Industry. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. I may be able to connect you with options in the event that you want to get involved with a Dealership License to buy and sell at wholesale.

Good Luck,

Richie

I work for a specialty car dealer/ parts and flip cars on the side.

I got into "flipping" cars for side money and i usually buy broken or damaged cars. I always take my work serious and try my best to fix them OEM+. I like the extra 6-10K a year in play money.

I've had pretty good luck with a few flips, my personal strategy is buying heavily depreciated old German/British vehicles with mechanical issues and fixing them up. Not too long ago I bought a 2004 Range Rover that didn't run for $3000— I ended up replacing the fuel pump and doing a mild engine rebuild, all of which cost under $1000 in parts. I ended up selling it for around $7000, not bad. I like doing mechanical work and these flips generally have pretty high margins due to everyone's fear of fixing mechanical issues.

I used to try to do this, until I did the math as to what I made per hour. Ack.

Now I photograph weddings on the weekends. It's less stress, lower risk, and pays far better. I wouldn't recommend flips for side money. Like other said, there's a lot of competition and the payout isn't great.

There's big sunk cost in most states as you have to pay taxes, registration fees, etc.

I would say auctions are key. Outside of those, the deals just aren't good enough.

IMO, focusing on ways to reduce the spend required to go racing will yield a better return than flipping cars will.

ProDarwin wrote: IMO, focusing on ways to reduce the spend required to go racing will yield a better return than flipping cars will.

I tried doing this. It's very hard to reduce entry fees and I already drive the least expensive possible car with very inexpensive consumables.

I found just making more $ was a better solution.

ProDarwin wrote: I would say auctions are key. Outside of those, the deals just aren't good enough. IMO, focusing on ways to reduce the spend required to go racing will yield a better return than flipping cars will.

I disagree, craiglist and faceplace market place is full of great deals. Just cant wait around to buy them

Yeah there may be better options. According to a view on the web earlier I could find consulting work in my field for anywhere from 80-150 dollars an hour possibly. In which case maybe thats a better option even at the low end of that.

Funny you mention wedding photography I was actually thinking about product photography. I have a buddy who loves to Ebay etc and I think good pictures really make a difference (also make a difference when selling cars)

I think most things the money with cars is made on the buy.

My brother does some auction sales/remarketing. @M3Loco I'll shoot you a PM just because I have some questions about that in general.

I sell stuff on eBay for side money, mostly commercial electronics (as distinct from, say, tablets or pcs). I do sell some car parts on eBay and find it's possible to make some decent cash with it but it's a j-o-b, not a really lucrative low-effort thing. But I don't mind it some. I more than funded racing last year between my car parts and electronics sales; then again I only ran two events but still that was >$1500 in costs.

I would caution you about this part:

No matter how much money I make with my "day job" that money seems perpetually dog eared for the communal kitty

I find that no matter how much money you make it can readily be consumed by the "communal kitty" without some budgeting or other constraints in place. Even if you make $3000 flipping cars what are the chances you'll suddenly need a new couch or kitchen cabinets instead of racing entry fees? It's easy for money to find itself earmarked, and it's really really easy for latent wants to suddenly become needs when there's cash in the bank to fund them. I'm not saying you need to separate your finances, I'm just saying that you might want to find a way to end up with funds sitting in a paypal account instead of your shared checking account. ;-)

Blaise wrote:

ProDarwin wrote: IMO, focusing on ways to reduce the spend required to go racing will yield a better return than flipping cars will.

I tried doing this. It's very hard to reduce entry fees and I already drive the least expensive possible car with very inexpensive consumables. I found just making more $ was a better solution.

Entry fees for autox and rallyx are minimal. Most people do not drive the cheapest possible car. Or split ownership costs with multiple people. Do all their own work. Pack lunches. Etc. Some of us operate on the cheap, but its easy to see lots of room for improvement in the average racer's budget.

Making more $ is a great solution... doing so by flipping cars? no so much.

HonestSpeedShop wrote:

ProDarwin wrote: I would say auctions are key. Outside of those, the deals just aren't good enough. IMO, focusing on ways to reduce the spend required to go racing will yield a better return than flipping cars will.

I disagree, craiglist and faceplace market place is full of great deals. Just cant wait around to buy them

Eh. I know the deals are out there, but it requires significant time to jump on those deals. And in many cases a truck, trailer, etc. If you already have all those things, great. If you don't, you need to factor in the costs for those.

I've passed up some smoking deals on CL in the past year. But all of them were >1 hr away, which is not something I can just hop in the car and do - I have work and family commitments. I also need a 2nd driver if driving the car back as I don't own a truck and trailer.

And that's assuming its actually a good deal. Factor in the number of misrepresented cars on craigslist, and I'm going to be driving a minimum 6+ hours for each car I buy. So it better be a smokin' deal, or I'm already behind.

Blaise wrote: I used to try to do this, until I did the math as to what I made per hour. Ack. Now I photograph weddings on the weekends. It's less stress, lower risk, and pays far better. I wouldn't recommend flips for side money. Like other said, there's a lot of competition and the payout isn't great. There's big sunk cost in most states as you have to pay taxes, registration fees, etc.

I do keep the per-hour rate in mind when doing flips. I spent about 40 hours on my Range Rover flip and made about $3000 in profit. That equates to about $75/hr in cash, which is three times my hourly pay at my day job as a web developer. Taxes/title/registration were under $100 because Arizona is cheap, and it was like $40 a month to add it to my insurance while I owned it and drove it around.

After messing around with super cheap cars and not making much money, I determined that for the best flips (for me, at least) were the more expensive ones. Like buying a car for $3k and selling for $7k, or buying a car for $7k and selling for $13k. They make enough profit to justify the effort, and they usually end up being some pretty cool cars too. Like I essentially got paid to daily drive an E39 M5 for a few months. Took it to Bimmerfest West in 2016 and had a blast with it. It wasn't a super quick flip, but it was a very satisfying and financially rewarding one.

Funny you mention wedding photography— my dad is a full-time professional wedding photographer, and times haven't been too easy for him. Back in the day, people would happily pay thousands for wedding photography + photo albums, but at this point almost anybody with a DSLR can do a half-decent job for a couple hundred bucks, which has completely collapsed the industry in some ways.

HonestSpeedShop wrote:

ProDarwin wrote: I would say auctions are key. Outside of those, the deals just aren't good enough. IMO, focusing on ways to reduce the spend required to go racing will yield a better return than flipping cars will.

I disagree, craiglist and faceplace market place is full of great deals. Just cant wait around to buy them

Eh. I know the deals are out there, but it requires significant time to jump on those deals. And in many cases a truck, trailer, etc. If you already have all those things, great. If you don't, you need to factor in the costs for those.

I've passed up some smoking deals on CL in the past year. But all of them were >1 hr away, which is not something I can just hop in the car and do - I have work and family commitments. I also need a 2nd driver if driving the car back as I don't own a truck and trailer.

And that's assuming its actually a good deal. Factor in the number of misrepresented cars on craigslist, and I'm going to be driving a minimum 6+ hours for each car I buy. So it better be a smokin' deal, or I'm already behind.

If your even considering flipping cars a truck and trailer is critical, and hell I charge $1.25 a mile when i tow for most people, and it covers fuel running cost and money in my pocket.

I must be car buying lucky, I can usually walk on a car by just talking to the owner on the phone.

I in pocket profited almost 12K CASH in side work alone.

dannyzabolotny wrote: Funny you mention wedding photography— my dad is a full-time professional wedding photographer, and times haven't been too easy for him. Back in the day, people would happily pay thousands for wedding photography + photo albums, but at this point almost anybody with a DSLR can do a half-decent job for a couple hundred bucks, which has completely collapsed the industry in some ways.

I strongly disagree with this statement. Sorry for the non-car talk for a minute everyone else!

Let me preface this with the fact that I live in Philadelphia and have easy access to NYC, which are arguably the two best markets for wedding photogs. I've also been extremely lucky to have met and worked with some very talented photogs right when I got started. That being said, your statement is akin to saying 'cars are so good nowadays anybody half decent can lap the ring in under 7 minutes!'

Nope, not even close. There's a LOT of bad photographers out there and those who are charging under $2000 in my market are all but guaranteed to put out a product that the client will regret. Weddings are expensive, and aside from your spouse, you can only take your memories with you after it's over... which is why you need to hire somebody good. I had a lot of experience shooting cars/landscapes/etc before I shot my first wedding and exactly 0% of my photos were used by my friend for the first wedding I helped him with (as a 3rd shooter). It takes time to get good and you need a good mentor.

To anybody reading: Don't ever just let a friend take pics with their DSLR for your wedding. Trust me. It won't be half-decent.

Also, please don't take this the wrong way, but if your father's business is really being impacted by random folks just using a camera, he needs to change the look of his work. The professionals whom I know to be charging $6-15k/wedding are never going to be cross shopped with 'Oh just have Uncle Bob do it' because their photos look nothing like the casual guy holding a camera. Please don't take that as an insult, I really hope things turn around for him. And I hope things continue to go well for me bc I reallllllllly want a Cayman. (There, back to car talk!)

Blaise wrote:

dannyzabolotny wrote: Funny you mention wedding photography— my dad is a full-time professional wedding photographer, and times haven't been too easy for him. Back in the day, people would happily pay thousands for wedding photography + photo albums, but at this point almost anybody with a DSLR can do a half-decent job for a couple hundred bucks, which has completely collapsed the industry in some ways.

I strongly disagree with this statement. Sorry for the non-car talk for a minute everyone else! Let me preface this with the fact that I live in Philadelphia and have easy access to NYC, which are arguably the two best markets for wedding photogs. I've also been extremely lucky to have met and worked with some very talented photogs right when I got started. That being said, your statement is akin to saying 'cars are so good nowadays anybody half decent can lap the ring in under 7 minutes!' Nope, not even close. There's a LOT of bad photographers out there and those who are charging under $2000 in my market are all but guaranteed to put out a product that the client will regret. Weddings are expensive, and aside from your spouse, you can only take your memories with you after it's over... which is why you need to hire somebody good. I had a lot of experience shooting cars/landscapes/etc before I shot my first wedding and exactly 0% of my photos were used by my friend for the first wedding I helped him with (as a 3rd shooter). It takes time to get good and you need a good mentor. To anybody reading: Don't ever just let a friend take pics with their DSLR for your wedding. Trust me. It won't be half-decent. Also, please don't take this the wrong way, but if your father's business is really being impacted by random folks just using a camera, he needs to change the look of his work. The professionals whom I know to be charging $6-15k/wedding are never going to be cross shopped with 'Oh just have Uncle Bob do it' because their photos look nothing like the casual guy holding a camera. Please don't take that as an insult, I really hope things turn around for him. And I hope things continue to go well for me bc I reallllllllly want a Cayman. (There, back to car talk!)

I totally get what you're saying, and I agree that cheap wedding photography is usually crap. What I'm saying is just what I've seen over the past decade.

My father's business is in NYC as well, and he shoots most of his weddings in Long Island, along with a few in Brooklyn and NJ. He's been a wedding photographer since the early 90's, starting out with super expensive, complicated cameras like Hasselblads and Bronicas. Back in those days, nobody balked at paying thousands for a wedding photo package, simply because there was no other alternative at the time. Once the switch to digital started, a lot of amateurs flooded the wedding industry. True, the really high end photographers were just fine, but the middle class customers that my dad worked with started disappearing, especially once the recession hit. I used to do some work for his company and I saw people saying firsthand that they couldn't afford his work even though they loved it. My dad tried to keep his prices steady but was forced to lower them to put food on the table when a lot of the work dried up. My mother works for a fairly high-end wedding photo studio in Long Island that's been around for over 30 years, and they saw a noticeable drop in business as well in the last decade. Things are starting to bounce back a little with the economy improving, but the industry still isn't back at the levels it was before the recession.

Anyways, I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, I guess it just hit a personal note for me since I grew up in the middle of it all (I've worked a few dozen weddings as well, mostly as a second photographer).

Hehe, I think weddings would be one of the things I would least want to photograph just because of how picky people can be after the fact.

@Prodarwin I think the flipping idea has more appeal because its cars and you might get to rotate through a few interesting vehicles more than practicality.

@everyone Yeah budgeting is by far the best way to make things happen maybe I just need to invest in better negotiation skills regarding the impractical :)

I agree I think the best way to really do it is with a truck and trailer, hell it might give you an excuse to buy one for racing :)

TBH I am mostly just frustrated by being trapped in a house I am now renting in San Diego which doesn't leave the extra income to buy in NC and do some other things I want to out here. Since we "eat" about 900 a month on the house in SD rent-fees-gardener-mortgage

I'm kind of kicking myself for selling my miata now

dculberson wrote: I find that no matter how much money you make it can readily be consumed by the "communal kitty" without some budgeting or other constraints in place. Even if you make $3000 flipping cars what are the chances you'll suddenly need a new couch or kitchen cabinets instead of racing entry fees? It's easy for money to find itself earmarked, and it's really really easy for latent wants to suddenly become needs when there's cash in the bank to fund them. I'm not saying you need to separate your finances, I'm just saying that you might want to find a way to end up with funds sitting in a paypal account instead of your shared checking account. ;-)

I used to keep my money from doing sidework and selling parts as cash stashed in the garage. The wife knew I had it, but not how much or exactly where. That was my racecar money. My paychecks from my 9-5 were for the communal, but my sidework was my money. Giving up weekends and evenings was my sacrifice for my hobby.

If you need extra spending money, There is nothing wrong with working part time at Mcdonalds, Starbucks, or anywhere else.

NEALSMO wrote:

dculberson wrote: I find that no matter how much money you make it can readily be consumed by the "communal kitty" without some budgeting or other constraints in place. Even if you make $3000 flipping cars what are the chances you'll suddenly need a new couch or kitchen cabinets instead of racing entry fees? It's easy for money to find itself earmarked, and it's really really easy for latent wants to suddenly become needs when there's cash in the bank to fund them. I'm not saying you need to separate your finances, I'm just saying that you might want to find a way to end up with funds sitting in a paypal account instead of your shared checking account. ;-)

I used to keep my money from doing sidework and selling parts as cash stashed in the garage. The wife knew I had it, but not how much or exactly where. That was my racecar money. My paychecks from my 9-5 were for the communal, but my sidework was my money. Giving up weekends and evenings was my sacrifice for my hobby.

This method is what i use, any side job money is stashed. Wife knows i have it and i occasionally use it for things for the family but its primary use is car parts.

chada75 wrote: If you need extra spending money, There is nothing wrong with working part time at Mcdonalds, Starbucks, or anywhere else.

Except the hourly rate and availability expectations and the type of work and having to suck up the general public and .. and ..