Ford F-150 Lightning: Truck of the future? We bought one to find out

glyn ellis said:

Keith Tanner said:

That's assuming I don't stay overnight at a hotel with a destination charger, which gives me a free "tank" of gas.

This is an interesting piece of information - do any of the hotels charge for this, and how do you find theses chargers?

It varies, but it's almost always free. I just hit the "has EV charger" filter when hotel shopping, and have never seen it impact rates. Usually it's something like there are four hotels at an exit, all at $129/night, but one has an EV charger. So I'll stay at the one with a charger. 

Tom Suddard said:

glyn ellis said:

Keith Tanner said:

That's assuming I don't stay overnight at a hotel with a destination charger, which gives me a free "tank" of gas.

This is an interesting piece of information - do any of the hotels charge for this, and how do you find theses chargers?

It varies, but it's almost always free. I just hit the "has EV charger" filter when hotel shopping, and have never seen it impact rates. Usually it's something like there are four hotels at an exit, all at $129/night, but one has an EV charger. So I'll stay at the one with a charger. 

Same. Turns out it's really easy to filter on it on hotels.com if you know to look.

EV destination charging is a lot like wifi was a few years ago - it's a way for businesses and hotels to distinguish themselves at a relatively low cost, and will eventually become a requirement just to be competitive. And just like wifi, some hotels will likely try to bill you for it in the future. I imagine urban hotels that have expensive parking or required valet parking will be the last to offer it. Generic interstate hotels will be (are) the first.

I'll see if I can find out more about how the Lightning experiment went for Janel's company. Given the fact that they ordered three for this year, I'm assuming it was not a complete failure. But they didn't lease 30. I want to know more. I also know that one of her coworkers bought one, although I don't remember if it's the IT guy or the fleet manager - both were keen on the idea.

NY Nick said:

93gsxturbo said:

A friend once mentioned to me that as we all make more money, the true luxury is time.  If I am on vacation, or work, or anywhere else, I don't want to wait for even 40 minutes 3-4x on my trip...

Cool, you probably shouldn't buy an EV, seems like it isn't the right solution for you. But why the war? Seems like you could just turn your back on this thread and not be materially injured. Maybe you could gas up your diesel in 2 minutes instead of 3 because all the woke tree huggers (insert sarcasim emoji) will be waiting to plug in their useless junk EV's at the local broken DC charger. Let it go. 

Um - I have a PHEV.  So yeah.

Keith Tanner specifically called me out when I claimed it took 5 minutes to gas up a truck.

 (it doesn't really take 5 minutes, especially if you're wandering into the convenience store to buy drinks)

So if we are going to allow people to throw shade and accuse forum members of being technical neanderthals surprised by gas gauges and lack of cell signal, well that is on Keith and GRM moderators. 

The thoughts I have offered have been based on fact, research, and personal experience on both sides of the EV vs ICE discussion.  Fact of the matter being that the OP asked if an e-Truck will do everything a gas truck will, I responded that no it wont with both facts and anecdotes, and was downvoted for some reason.  Guess the truth hurts some more than others.

I know it actually takes longer than 5 minutes to fill up a diesel pickup because I have to keep a log when driving commercially. It's one of those things you don't really think takes any measurable time, but will surprise you if you actually measure it. And I'm talking about total stopped time, because you can't refuel at 75 mph.

As for the wandering into the convenience store, I wasn't the one who added buying a Coke Zero to the fuel stop - but I took it into account. That's not throwing shade. That's expressing an opinion based on experience and time logs. And it wasn't a personal attack, so please don't read it as such.

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Because you have just been screaming about your very rare edge case use.

Hell it takes me at least 10 minutes to get 30 gallons of fuel into the excursion. I don't get to use a speedy diesel pump, and if it needs more than 30 gallons to fill the 44 gallon tank, I gotta go through the whole song and dance again with a different card. And that's without waiting for idiots to do their weekly shop while parked at the pump and trying to find pumps that aren't blocked off or broken. 

We get it, your somehow always on the road, breaking commercial driving laws, and don't have time or desire for a charger or to even glance at your phone to see where a charger may be. I'm not even going to touch the possible broken chargers because I have zero experience with them.  We heard you the first dozen times. Turns out, you're an extreme minority in use cases, so things won't work for you like they will for the majority. 

Can we just get one thread about ev use in the real world without whiny childish outbursts?

RevRico said:

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Because you have just been screaming about your very rare edge case use.

Hell it takes me at least 10 minutes to get 30 gallons of fuel into the excursion. I don't get to use a speedy diesel pump, and if it needs more than 30 gallons to fill the 44 gallon tank, I gotta go through the whole song and dance again with a different card. And that's without waiting for idiots to do their weekly shop while parked at the pump and trying to find pumps that aren't blocked off or broken. 

We get it, your somehow always on the road, breaking commercial driving laws, and don't have time or desire for a charger or to even glance at your phone to see where a charger may be. I'm not even going to touch the possible broken chargers because I have zero experience with them.  We heard you the first dozen times. Turns out, you're an extreme minority in use cases, so things won't work for you like they will for the majority. 

Can we just get one thread about ev use in the real world without whiny childish outbursts?

What would be the point of a thread if everyone agreed?  He's making his case.  I don't find his dissent from the hive to be "childish".  He's embellishing a bit but so is everyone else.  Do you want dialogue or monologue?  To me at least, the latter is boring and there is nothing to be learned from it.   
 

Besides, UltraDork > MegaDork.  I think.  Or that's how it should work 

In reply to RevRico :

Its more about that unless you drive the same F150 with a 3.5 ecoboom he does your a fool regardless of what class truck it is.

This.. appears to be a cool solution coming for the hotshot trucking community

(thanks to the algorithm)

RevRico said:

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

We get it, your somehow always on the road, breaking commercial driving laws, and don't have time or desire for a charger or to even glance at your phone to see where a charger may be.

No DOT numbers, regular plate, no logos.  I ai not a commercial driver ;)

Ok, we're officially here:

OHSCrifle said:

This.. appears to be a cool solution coming for the hotshot trucking community

(thanks to the algorithm)

https://www.youtube.com/embed/eKyYZZTqcRA?rel=0

 

Cool, although that just looks like my dads Dodge, and getting either of us to give up on the Cummins I6 TD.... cold dead hands and all that.  

Aside from a few longer trips a year the electric f150 covers 95% of my uses.   There is a local dude who rents diesel rams with his camping trailer rentals, so the hauling a camper thing a couple times a year isn't even an excuse.  
 

charging is hard to find in the areas I go mountain biking and camping. But I guess that'll be coming soon. 

OHSCrifle said:

This.. appears to be a cool solution coming for the hotshot trucking community

(thanks to the algorithm)

https://www.youtube.com/embed/eKyYZZTqcRA?rel=0

 

Those one-piece motor and axle combos are what I've been waiting for. They'd make retrofitting old cars so much easier. My Cadillac would be an excellent EV, because Cadillac was basically going after all of the EV attributes back in the 60s. Being able to just slide a powered axle under the back would make the swap easier.

I'd also love to put a pair of them under the old Land Rover, for lots of 4WD torque and no driveshaft hassles.

Tom Suddard said:

glyn ellis said:

Keith Tanner said:

That's assuming I don't stay overnight at a hotel with a destination charger, which gives me a free "tank" of gas.

This is an interesting piece of information - do any of the hotels charge for this, and how do you find theses chargers?

It varies, but it's almost always free. I just hit the "has EV charger" filter when hotel shopping, and have never seen it impact rates. Usually it's something like there are four hotels at an exit, all at $129/night, but one has an EV charger. So I'll stay at the one with a charger. 

That's assuming the (usually single) charger doesn't already have someone parked there (for the night).

triumph7 said:

Tom Suddard said:

glyn ellis said:

Keith Tanner said:

That's assuming I don't stay overnight at a hotel with a destination charger, which gives me a free "tank" of gas.

This is an interesting piece of information - do any of the hotels charge for this, and how do you find theses chargers?

It varies, but it's almost always free. I just hit the "has EV charger" filter when hotel shopping, and have never seen it impact rates. Usually it's something like there are four hotels at an exit, all at $129/night, but one has an EV charger. So I'll stay at the one with a charger. 

That's assuming the (usually single) charger doesn't already have someone parked there (for the night).

Of course, just like a 5 minute fuel stop assumes that not every pump is blocked by someone who's scratching off lottery tickets for 30 minutes in the store (this seems to vary by state, and CA is the leader in long term gas pump parking from what I've seen). It's definitely a risk, but I haven't been ICEd out yet and it's one of those things I expect to only improve with time.

93gsxturbo said:

DC Fast Chargers are a bit of a meme.  Its nice to think that they exist and you can find them every 200 miles.  In reality, that is pretty far from the truth.  In Milwaukee County (population of 928,000) there are 6 available for the public (5 in one location and 1 in another).  I would say that is a statistically insignificant number.  

When I had my Polestar 1 out in San Diego area, I was able to find exactly one (1) working DC Fast Charger.  So I don't think you can count on them being everywhere.  Its a great talking point but they are not commonly available, even in the most EVish of areas (San Diego and Encinitas)

Tim, I do own a PHEV, the wife's commuting vehicle, so I understand EV just fine.  Please note the PH part, thats the saving grace.   We road tripped it down from Milwaukee to Chattanooga on the interstate, you would think for a modern city that is trying to grow (Chattanooga) there would be chargers on every corner, but there were not.  The hotel we stayed at (the Chattanoogan) had no EV charging.  There were two Level II chargers across the road, but the lot had no overnight parking and the chargers were disabled when the business was closed wa wa waaaaa.  There was a charger in a parking structure about a 6 block walk from the hotel, but thats a huge pain in the dick, and the cost of the parking garage made it cheaper to just toss some gas in it and party on.  Lookout Mountain advertises an EV charger, but it was broken.  

For around town and costco runs, this lil PHEV is perfect.  It is so nice to never fill up at the gas pumps.  For putting on the miles, just too damn much stress for the pennies it saves.  

I recently detailed my 1900 mile road trip down to the Daytona 500 and back in my Bolt EUV in this thread:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/lets-talk-soulless-commuter-cars-with-zero-motorsports-aspirations/262735/page2/

Chargers were easy to find, right off the highway, they weren't full of cars. Looking at PlugShare.com, there are 180,000 charging stations around the country and 200,000 Tesla stations. DC Fast charge stations are plentiful, and you can see before you get there which ones are working or in use. There are no multiple charging standards to worry about, as most EVs use the CCS charger for fast charging or the J1772 for Level 1 or 2 (AC charging). Both plugs are really the same plug. Newer EVs are all going to the Tesla charger, but CCS adapters are already available for about $100.

I regularly take 600-900 mile road trips from Baltimore up to eastern CT, or down to TN or even Myrtle Beach. It's just not that hard.

But most people don't take road trips, and do 99% of their charging at home overnight, so a full charge effectively takes 10 seconds: 5 to plug in when you get home, and 5 more to unplug when you leave. For me, at 12c/kWh, and a 65 kWh battery (and 250-300 miles per charge) daily driving 1000 miles a month effectively costs me about $24 in electricity. About half the cost of a single fillup of my MINI Cooper.

And because of that, you don't NEED a lot of fast chargers or even level 2 chargers all over like gas stations. And especially not within 50-100 miles of home. You can't generally fill up your gas car at home, and you HAVE to go somewhere else to do it, at a higher cost. EV infrastructure is in most homes already. That's the beauty of it (unless you live in an apartment or condo, but even those are getting incentivized to do charger installations). Level 2 is simply a 240v dryer outlet (NEMA 14-50) that's easy to install in a lot of places. Level 1 is a typical 15 amp 120v outlet. It's damn slow, but you can usually replace the typical 30 miles of average daily driving overnight.

Keith Tanner said:

Those one-piece motor and axle combos are what I've been waiting for. They'd make retrofitting old cars so much easier. My Cadillac would be an excellent EV, because Cadillac was basically going after all of the EV attributes back in the 60s. Being able to just slide a powered axle under the back would make the swap easier.

I'd also love to put a pair of them under the old Land Rover, for lots of 4WD torque and no driveshaft hassles.

My bolding for emphasis. I really, really, really want an EV Defender (but not a $200k one like this). Would powered axles like those be able to withstand occasional water crossings? 

Fueled by Caffeine said:

Aside from a few longer trips a year the electric f150 covers 95% of my uses.   There is a local dude who rents diesel rams with his camping trailer rentals, so the hauling a camper thing a couple times a year isn't even an excuse.  
 

charging is hard to find in the areas I go mountain biking and camping. But I guess that'll be coming soon. 

I wonder how many calls "local dude" gets from people that are stranded because they put unleaded in it.  No way I'd rent diesels to the common citizenry.

Keith Tanner said:

I know it actually takes longer than 5 minutes to fill up a diesel pickup because I have to keep a log when driving commercially. It's one of those things you don't really think takes any measurable time, but will surprise you if you actually measure it. And I'm talking about total stopped time, because you can't refuel at 75 mph.

The "get off the freeway and find an energy source" time is a wash between the two.

As for filling time -- out of curiousity I've timed it the last couple times I've filled tanks.  Most of the pumps I've used will do a gallon about every 10 seconds, so 5 minutes gets you 30 gallons.  I dunno how big the tank on your Ram is, but the one on my F-250 is 34 and I've only put 30 into it once.

Pump speed varies a bit, I think it depends on how full the in-ground tank is.  I was at one on Wednesday night that was running super slow, over a minute for each gallon.  After about 3 gallons I gave up and drove to a different station.

(and I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've bought something in a gas station convenience store in the last 5 years :))

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

The difference is that the EV has the ability to refuel while it's stopped for other reasons. A lunch stop, for example, can get you a "free" charging stop. Or your overnight. Last time I had to fill the Jeep up on my way home, I had to take a 5 mile detour to get to a gas station and back enroute. But even if it's a "refuel and nothing else stop", the 75-0 and 0-75 time is a much larger percentage of the total in an ICE. It might be the difference between a 5 minute fill and a 10 minute one, or a 25 vs 30 minute charging stop. 

I've put 30+ into my Ram a few times while working. It's a whole lot faster if I can get to one of the high speed truck pumps, but that can often come with its own time cost as I might have to trek across the lot to give them a credit card before the pump works (less common than it was a couple of years ago, thank goodness) or if I do have to go to the can I have to drive/walk a lot further. This is all influenced by the fact that when I'm towing, I'm 50' long and basically a baby semi. The "car" pumps are often not an option for me.

Gas station convenience stores get used a LOT. Just look at the size of them and the fact that there's always someone at the checkout. They're where you really make your money as a gas station owner because you only make pennies on a gallon of gas - kinda like the concession stands at movies. It's fair to say that a non-trivial number of people stopping for fuel will go into the store, even if there are some people who never do. The only reason I brought that up was because of the Coke Zero mention, but it does add time - time that the EV can spend charging. When a friend roadtripped across the US in a Model Y with his wife and kid (and cat!) a few years ago, he found that the limiting factor on recharging stops was usually the human one.

Filled my 911 this morning for first time in a couple of weeks. Five minutes. Going to drive from NC to SE Mass this month to visit family in my Q5. One five minute gas stop and if we decide to stop and eat it will be where I want not some app telling where I can get charged while I eat. I think you are exaggerating the gas station problems and how wonderful EV's are. 

A 401 CJ said:

Fueled by Caffeine said:

Aside from a few longer trips a year the electric f150 covers 95% of my uses.   There is a local dude who rents diesel rams with his camping trailer rentals, so the hauling a camper thing a couple times a year isn't even an excuse.  
 

charging is hard to find in the areas I go mountain biking and camping. But I guess that'll be coming soon. 

I wonder how many calls "local dude" gets from people that are stranded because they put unleaded in it.  No way I'd rent diesels to the common citizenry.

give him a call... https://www.midwestrvrentals.com/view-rentals

Well if the masses are to be believed, the Lightning purchase price bubble may have popped.  Was out driving in central IL, little Ford dealer north of Peru, IL had 3 or 4 lightnings, all with "$15,000 off!" stickers on the windows.  None of the gassers had such stickers.  I was on the clock or I would have stopped and checked the actual selling price.

On the upside, made a 320 mile round trip, didn't have to stop once for gas, didn't have to find a charger over lunch, but did really enjoy an excellent burger at Jake's Pour House in LaSalle, IL.  Glad my lunch decision was not based on "where can I get some volts so I can get back to Milwaukee"

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

You've def made your point and I'm happy to know that the Lightning isn't for you. Thank you

If they're really selling $15k off msrp then I might get me one. I can commute in it like I do for 99% of my driving. I do about 50 miles a day for work + another 40 per day to get the kids to wrestling, boxing, track. I think that's how most people in metro DC use their cars.