Ford Focus ST??

In reply to Flight Service:

Still trying to figure out why that's a bad thing. You have an extra choice.

Spinout007 wrote:

I get it, it's probably worth it, blah blah blah, but man..... 29k Focus......... that just doesn't sound right.

THIS! Especially. Since I'm shopping 10 year old zx3's for less than 1500$ for a run around beater pizza delivery car.

If you are shopping for a $1500 pizza beater, does it really matter if the Focus ST costs $22k, $25k, or $30k?

That, and the ZX3's you are looking at are two Focus models ago. And 10 years old. And cheap to start with. Heck I bought my Miata in '99 for $20k on S-plan, and now it's worth $2k. Does that have bearing on the cost of a new Miata?

Spinout007 wrote:

I get it, it's probably worth it, blah blah blah, but man..... 29k Focus......... that just doesn't sound right.

THIS! Especially. Since I'm shopping 10 year old zx3's for less than 1500$ for a run around beater pizza delivery car.

Compare a new WRX near 30k to a 10 year old base impreza. Pretty big spread there too. At the end of the day it is still a hot rodded economy car, but now small cars like the focus actually have quality materials in them.

In reply to alfadriver:

Nah, the new one is just the second generation we got......the atrocity they called a focus between the two real ones deserved a pinto badge at best.

In reply to alfadriver:

No but loosing 10% a year is bad money anyway so....

I myself am very happy for all these new awesome cars coming out. The stereotypical GRM response is that there will be lots of toys for tracking in the future and all bugs will be bitched about on the internets.

Waiting for the stereotypical reply of: "Manufacturers don't plan on making a car that people will buy 5-10 years down the road used so why even both saying something like that if you can't afford it now?"

You missed the I think.

Spinout007 wrote: In reply to alfadriver: No but loosing 10% a year is bad money anyway so....

That's not bad. When we bought my wife's 164LS way back in 1996, it was just off of lease, and it's sticker was just north of $36k. We got it for $14k.

It's all relative....

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Flight Service: Still trying to figure out why that's a bad thing. You have an extra choice.

It's not that I have an extra choice that is good. It is that you are inferring that the fact someone would cross shop these cars is "marketing" talk. It's not, and it happens more than you realize.

You are going to get the Import crowd that won't look at the Mustang, you are going to get the muscle car upstarts that won't look at the Focus.

Then you will get a variety of enthusiastic gear heads that will cross shop everything at a price point with sporting intentions. That is a very very diverse group right now and that is a good thing.

Don't be so assumptive on the customer base, that is a quick way to lose sales.

In reply to Flight Service:

Well, up until recently, there was never going to be a Focus that was close to Mustangs in terms of performance. That was due to marketing thinking that they should not interfere with Mustang sales.

The reality is that there are more pure Mustang buyers AND more pure Focus buyers than ones who would cross shop between the kinds of cars.

On top of that, there are far more brand buyers of performance cars than not- sure- there are cross buyers and "take away". So if you are in the Ford dealer, the odds are that you are cross shopping two Fords, and that's a good thing.

Maybe I should put it in a different way- people here are downing the ST since you can get one for a little more than a perfornace V6 Mustang, and that's somehow bad. To ME, that's the same excuse I heard that we should not sell the ST, since it "threatened" Mustang sales. I just don't see that as a bad thing- so I call it "marketing" talk. How that is assumptive of buyers, I don't honestly understand. It's NOT a bad thing that people cross shop, and it's not a bad thing that the ST and the Mustang are in similar price windows. That's a good thing.

I think it would be cool if you could get a Cruze with a 270hp engine, and it was similar in quickness AND cost of some performance Camaros, even at $30k.

In reply to alfadriver:

Why would GM do that, their low 30's Buick regal GS is a nicer car than their land barge v6 shrimp......

I don't know jack shot about marketing! I started the thread by saying that I was driving around in a E36 M3 storm, and a Focus of all things grabbed me. I don't usually pay much attention to modern cars, so that must say something. I like Mustangs, but could never see myself as an owner of one(although my friends Shelby GT500 KR is sweet!!!), nor almost any other modern day FWD car, but man that Focus really made me stop to check it out. Maybe it was the in your face blue or maybe I was just in a weird mood, but I pulled over, and got drenched looking at that thing.

Now if it were an old Mazda, or any RWD j-tin you guys wouldn't think this to be odd if you knew me, but to look at a Focus or any FWD car is saying something. Alfadriver may be onto something here with the marketing of cars that are similar on price, but little else aside from a badge. I don't see that as being a problem. Either way I don't think I will buy either car because I am a GRM'er, but man it had me thinking. There are so many other lost soul cars that I could buy for $29K.

Now help me find a 1980 Cressida wagon with a five-speed!!!

Older post I know but thanks to all who posted. This was exactly the data I was looking for. New career has prompted my wife to encourage me to buy a "reliable car with air conditioning" since I've been driving my E30 in the Texas heat. Not sure what's unreliable about a 23 year old BMW but she's willing to put her GL550 on hold for me to have a car to commute in that "needs nothing". She's pretty darn awesome.

Dealer next to my hotel had a used 2010 MS3 and many Focus ST to try on for size. I also took the V6 Mustang with Performance Package into account that someone mentioned earlier but there wasn't one anywhere close by BUT they had a GT/6 speed in the showroom that had been there over 200 days.

Impressions...

MS3 felt fast. Suspension seemed firm and I could feel the bumps but it wasn't distracting, MS3 suspension "felt" like a sports car. Texas roads eat balls. I didn't come away from it wanting more tech, it had enough. Shifter was fantastic and the seats fit my 6'3" 230lb frame perfectly. Back seat had more room than the Focus. This car made me smile and I haven't felt that since I got my 540i/6. The car I drove had 37k miles and the PO had put Falken Azenis on it, not sure if that affected my driving impression.

Focus ST I drove was loaded, 202a interior. I'm a tech guy and the electronics felt overwhelming. I suppose I could turn it off once I figured it out. Focus felt quick, not fast as was noted elsewhere here and on the web. The suspension had more jounce but felt more refined overall. The seat bottoms on the Recaro's felt a bit tight for me. I thought I would like the Focus more.

I'll be driving 50 miles round trip a day and I was thinking I'd favor the Focus for the mileage. Now, I'm thinking I don't care after driving the MS3. With my discount for both cars new I can configure them for right around $24k but the Focus will get cloth sport seats, not Recaros.

As for that Mustang GT I mentioned, I told my salesman I wanted it for under $30k and he said we could keep asking until they said yes. Not a bad deal. I know the back seat in those are tight, been there before. My wife and a couple other buddies said I'm not a "Mustang guy" and should consider the other choices. Wife even said I'm more of the "boy racer type". Didn't even know she was familiar with that term, hahaha. Going to drive the GT after we close on our new house just to make sure I'm not a Mustang guy.

My $.02 tacked onto an old post.

Bruce

PS I have eliminated Cooper S (used, maybe another time) and Abarth 500 from my list for anyone keeping score. Wife said MINI was a little to metro-sexual for her taste. hahaha Fiat was just too small after I got into the Focus and MS3.

VWguyBruce wrote: As for that Mustang GT I mentioned, I told my salesman I wanted it for under $30k and he said we could keep asking until they said yes. Not a bad deal.

That shouldn't be a problem. I paid $30,500 for a special order base Mustang GT with the Track Pack. And that was without some plan pricing or being an employee or anything.

I'd go GT (not having driven any of them). I've ridden as a passenger in the MS3 and all I could think was "boy racer". Not quite for a mature person, which is odd, because I've never considered myself exactly that.

Nitroracer wrote:

Spinout007 wrote:

I get it, it's probably worth it, blah blah blah, but man..... 29k Focus......... that just doesn't sound right.

THIS! Especially. Since I'm shopping 10 year old zx3's for less than 1500$ for a run around beater pizza delivery car.

Compare a new WRX near 30k to a 10 year old base impreza. Pretty big spread there too. At the end of the day it is still a hot rodded economy car, but now small cars like the focus actually have quality materials in them.

If you are buying WRX and spend that much you are being ripped off, lol. I paid $26k out the door and that was with options. If it was $30k i would of bought something else.

I owned an Mazdaspeed3 for four years. I test drove a 2013 Focus ST a few weeks ago.

I'd say your observations are spot on. The only thing I think the Focus had over the MS3 was mpg and tech. If that's not a breaking point for you, and you like the MS3 better, I'd say it's a good fit for you. You can also remedy the tech points with a smart phone. Use the phone as a GPS. Also find a bluetooth gateway to plug into the aux input on the MS3 and you then have bluetooth connectivity for streaming audio.

I liked the MS3 and still miss it a bit. The mpg was good especially compared to other cars with the same level of utility and performance. Speaking of utility, that hatch was damned nice. I could fit a ton of things back there. Since it had a wagon style look it was invisible to law enforcement in silver.

There are some great deals with the incentives on the ST right now. You can get a fully loaded ST3 for just around $26k without haggling.

One knock I have on the ST is the fact that it has a teeny tiny fuel tank. I was thinking that one of these would make a perfect replacement for my Mazda 3, but then I saw that the tank is puny. I drive a lot (almost 100 miles a day) and that's not going to help me out. Right now, I have to get gas every 4 days in my 3, and for budgeting reasons, I was looking for something that does a little bit better range-wise.

That and the giant tail lights. What was Ford thinking??? What was wrong with the pillar-style of the older Focus hatchbacks?

The Mazdaspeed 3 is a nice car too. I almost bought one when I bought my regular 3. The ST looks like a better overall package though.

SilverFleet wrote: That and the giant tail lights. What was Ford thinking??? What was wrong with the pillar-style of the older Focus hatchbacks?

I know. The original test mules had em.

I'll toss this out here again for those who missed it. My review of the Focus ST:

www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Classic+Reviews%3A+2013+Ford+Focus+ST-211234.xhtml

And even though the gas tank is small I was still going 300 miles between stops, so that isnt too bad.

slefain wrote: I'll toss this out here again for those who missed it. My review of the Focus ST: www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Classic+Reviews%3A+2013+Ford+Focus+ST-211234.xhtml And even though the gas tank is small I was still going 300 miles between stops, so that isnt too bad.

Thanks. Read that with interest.

Wife road with me last night in a new MS3 and felt the ride was harsh on Texas roads. Said she'll probably end up motion sick riding any longer than 30 minutes. I think I'll give her a ride in the Focus and see what she thinks. I'll be driving it most of the time but don't want her to be miserable if I can help it. She did mention the other day about autocrossing the new car, so....

The Tech Package on the MS3 I drove last night was more than enough without feeling like too much. Stream Pandora, link 8 devices, auto tracking HID headlights, GPS Nav.

Didn't realize the WRX was so cheap. Dang it. More to consider.

VWguyBruce wrote:

slefain wrote: I'll toss this out here again for those who missed it. My review of the Focus ST: www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Classic+Reviews%3A+2013+Ford+Focus+ST-211234.xhtml And even though the gas tank is small I was still going 300 miles between stops, so that isnt too bad.

Thanks. Read that with interest. Wife road with me last night in a new MS3 and felt the ride was harsh on Texas roads. Said she'll probably end up motion sick riding any longer than 30 minutes. I think I'll give her a ride in the Focus and see what she thinks. I'll be driving it most of the time but don't want her to be miserable if I can help it. She did mention the other day about autocrossing the new car, so.... The Tech Package on the MS3 I drove last night was more than enough without feeling like too much. Stream Pandora, link 8 devices, auto tracking HID headlights, GPS Nav. Didn't realize the WRX was so cheap. Dang it. More to consider.

Unless you absolutely find that having AWD is necessary, stick to either the ST or the MS3.

SilverFleet wrote: Unless you absolutely find that having AWD is necessary, stick to either the ST or the MS3.

I agree with this. I test drove the WRX too.

It's a great car. I'm sure it's reliable. With the new widebody it's great looking.

That said, it's very basic. Buzzy. Harsh. It's fast and sticks like glue to the road.

failboat wrote:

SilverFleet wrote: That and the giant tail lights. What was Ford thinking??? What was wrong with the pillar-style of the older Focus hatchbacks?

I know. The original test mules had em.

Eerr, that's the previous generation Euro Focus. Europe gets the same car/lights as we do.

VWguyBruce wrote: Wife road with me last night in a new MS3 and felt the ride was harsh on Texas roads. Said she'll probably end up motion sick riding any longer than 30 minutes. I think I'll give her a ride in the Focus and see what she thinks. I'll be driving it most of the time but don't want her to be miserable if I can help it. She did mention the other day about autocrossing the new car, so....

I've said it here before. I was 100% set on getting an MS3 in 08. I'd read every thing there was to read. Knew every road test and comparo. Knew every spec there was to know. I'd been in severlal regular 3's and loved them. I was positive I was getting an MS3 right up until I test drove one. The dream lasted about 5 seconds after pulling out of the dealer and hitting the first Michigan ripple in the road, let alone pot hole. I think your wife will be much happier in the ST, can't do much about the dank size other than hypermiling though!