Formula 1 2024 Season

Purple Frog (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith,   I totally agree about the old unlimited racing.   Your point about Can-Am is correct.  I'm thinking Donohue in the Sunoco Porsche...  Gurney's Toyota that ended IMSA GTP.    I think we were so entralled back then because they were pushing the limits.  But, it wasn't "competitive".  In so many cases the winner was one who was still running.  And, safety was an after-thought.

I am amazed in current F1 by how close the field for the most part really is.

For a top level road racing series like IMSA, as a fan, I would like to see a balance of pushing the limit of today's tech in that "unlimited" sense while also keeping field sizes up with the "balancing act." I don't care for what the modern take on Camel Lights is today with LMP2 simply being a spec class, all running the same VK45. Somehow the original Daytona Prototype class had a great formula for diversity and close racing with large fields. While they were ugly as sin, I would gladly take them back today. 

Guenther always started strong and then fell apart. Can't overlook HAAS' slide down to DFL, either. 

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

Gene Haas is hinting that he made the change because Komatsu is more engineering-oriented, whereas Guenther was more business-oriented. I'm not sure about that. Seems to me that being a team principal is more about leadership and sponsor dealings than technical knowledge. Which doesn't mean that Guenther was the right guy, I'm just not sure I agree with the logic.

When you put it like that, I actually agree even more with the change.  Hire business oriented people you trust to do that part.  One of the things that bothered me when I watched a few of the DTS series was how Gunther seemed to not seem to really understand the time and effort it took to solve problems- making them harder to solve.  Haas seemed to be led by a trial and error method more than a meticulous path to fully understand what they were doing- and being led by a business person, that makes total sense to me.

The business side to F1 isn't nearly as complicated as many other things- the most important thing was to raise money to fund the team and development.  Second would be to manage that money the most effective way.  Third would be to make the group in #1 feel like they are the most important people in the world.  A distant fourth is selling merch.  All of that hinges on how good of a racecar you have- which is more engineering.

Haas has a bit of a history with sponsors, too. First the Rich Energy debacle, then Uralkali - they didn't even have a title sponsor last year, did they? Maybe the business side hasn't been totally smooth.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

MoneyGram was their main sponsor, was touted to be a lucrative deal.. https://blog.moneygram.com/moneygram-haas-f1-team.html

In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :

Took how many seasons to find solid backing like that?  Steiner seemed like he was chasing spam emails hoping to get that one big thing.

In reply to alfadriver :

For sure they were scrambling to find any sort of deal after the Rich energy  and Uralkali debacles in back to back seasons IIRC. Guess at that point any sponsorship was better than none.  It certainly is not at the level that the big teams enjoy I bet.

In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :

Seems that they were scrambling to find funding to just get Rich Energy.  IIRC, I wasn't totally against them, not knowing the details, but there were plenty of posters here who knew enough about Rich Energy to call them out as a scam.  Especially when they were bidding for Force India.

I don't think Gunther was the most effected Team Principal in the lot but if you want to look at the systemic failure of Haas you have to look at Gene himself too. He has operated the team on a lower budget than his peers from day 1, the idea at the outset was to buy off the shelf components where possible and keep operating costs down. When you are working on bleeding edge technology things like F1 budget minded operations are going to suffer. It happened with Williams and conversely it happens for Red Bull, Mercedes, and Ferrari. 

Gene Haas has a listed net worth of $250M, which is freaking awesome and he made a shift in a major industry and built it himself so I am very impressed with him. However he started that team up on a lower budget, I would think he could sell it for 2-4X his current net worth and go laughing off into the sunset, hell he could probably swing a deal where he gets insanly more rich, keeps part of the ownership and the team is way more competitive with a different name and maybe a cadillac logo over the engine. 

In reply to NY Nick :

Was reading another article about Hass on the Formula 1 site. Haas technical director, Simone Resta, is leaving too, as he was on loan from Ferrari.  I think this was in the other article but Gene is hiring a COO to handle the non-motorsports side of the team operations so i think you're right about the budget being the main problem.  You have Gunther wearing at least two hats, don't renew his contract and effectively replace him with two people (Ayao Komatsu and the yet un-named COO) then complain about the teams lack of performance.  They also haven't named a successor to the technical director, so this next season may well be a dumpster fire like the last.  https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.haas-technical-director-simone-resta-departs-role-as-hes-set-for-ferrari.1NGEIg1e0kHWfurrTQ1842.html

So I've been watching the Brawn series.  My biggest gripe with this story is how everyone wants to say that this is some new, inexperienced team, first time this and that- and that's not accurate.  The real restriction was total lack of resources to do anything beyond building the cars- they had to lay off a bunch of people due to lack of money going into the season.  Dramatic, for sure. 

But the team WAS very experienced, they were Honda GP, and one of their experienced aero engineers saw the potential in the double diffuser.  Along with Williams and Toyota.  The way Ferrari wants to demean the team that much is so very lame.  Horner, too.  When people complain when Red Bull finds "the trick", he doesn't complain.  But his and Montezemelo's whining is just sickening.

It's a great story, no question.  And I admire how Brawn and Frye managed to keep the team together just enough to win the championship.  But they were not an inexperienced, beginner, team.  Just the team name was fresh and new.

alfadriver said:

It's a great story, no question.  And I admire how Brawn and Frye managed to keep the team together just enough to win the championship.  But they were not an inexperienced, beginner, team.  Just the team name was fresh and new.

This is true of the vast majority of "new" teams in F1.  There have really only been 6 new teams since the mid 90s:  Stewart/Jag/RBR, Haas, Toyota, and the three teams from 2010 who got suckered in by the promise of a budget cap (Manor/Virgin/Marussia, Lotus/Caterham, and HRT).

I think the team changes, adds, failures were somewhat affected by the pandemic affected seasons. They made things feel more stable that they may have been otherwise. Now with the budget cap and more life stability the teams can indulge in top management swaps and changes in structure. 

Haas probably would have restructured earlier. Their goal should be how people felt about force India. Force India usually had a race or two of looking for podiums or even wins. Then maybe pull sponsors big enough to transition to a Red Bull like team. As in, a non auto company F1 team with championship potential. 

And now for the latest entry to the "Worst Team Names of All Time"

Visa Cash App RB

And you thought Stake F1 Team Kick Sauber was bad...

In reply to Hoppps :

Was literally searching for the thread to post this

Visa Cash App RB Formula One Team

berkeley

Hopefully this goes better than Mastercard / Lola.

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

At least it's not the Beatrice Lola...

Can't wait for the first incident so we can call them "crash app"

gixxeropa said:

Can't wait for the first incident so we can call them "crash app"

Needs to be in the monthly GRM Board quotes.  But the context will be lost..  

I'd heard rumors, is that official now? Looks like the complete team name is Visa Cash App RB Formula One Team.

So embarrassing. At least they'll be called the same thing at every race, unlike Sauber which will sometimes be Stake and sometimes Kick and then eventually Audi.

You guys are being to harsh.......I mean I don't find it douchey or colossally lame at all.

I see that Ferrari signed Charles for another 3. I think he and Carlos are a really strong driver pair. I feel like Charles has higher highs than Carols and Carlos may have a better average (if driver rating was plotted over time). 

This got me wondering if all the teams have lists of drivers ranked for who fills their seats? So if you are Ferrari who outranks Carlos? Obvs, Max, probably Lewis, but then who? So who else needs to be locked down before Ferrari says yep let's go with Carlos again?

If not Carlos I would think they pull from f2 or maybe Shwartzman out of WEC. P1 Podcast said Albok but that doesn't seem plausible to me.

Idk why they wouldn't just keep the line up, it's probably the strongest pairing on the grid....just need to give them a better car!

Alpine team principal Bruno Famin has said that his team will be 'happy to resume the discussions' with Andretti about being their engine supplier, should the team's place in Formula 1 be confirmed.

 

Some more none news that people are trying to flame up for AA F1, it's like they are adding or subtracting out of the EU constitution, must be debating what size of the potato the AA catering team are allowed to use.

Watching the movie Gran Turismo I miss the reality TV shows The Legacy of the Red Bull Driver Search was a lot of fun to follow, I wish they would bring something like that, Scott Speed would have probably never made it to F1 without it.

Andretti bid rejected, he should just make Gene HAAS a offer Or Alpha