Keith Tanner said:In reply to loosecannon :
It also coincided with the change to the hybrid cars. They're a lot more complex to drive. I think Danny adapted faster than Seb did.
This. Seb really never got hold of the hybrids, right to the end of his career.
I think about half the field should move on. Let the new young guys win or fail.
In reply to Streetwiseguy :
For some of the drivers, it would be great if they could get their chances. But some of the "pay for" drivers need to move on before they get their dad to buy a race team. How much behind is Williams because they had to put Sargent into that seat for no development?
In reply to Streetwiseguy :
Hamilton by far is the most popular driver on Social Media, and will be on the most popular team historically next year. Audi has rumored to court Vettel and is a popular driver. Hulk being german helps his stock with being picked up by Audi. While it would be nice for more then half field to move on, popularity, nationality, and sponsorship all play a role. While Calipinto has been impressive, so was Nyck De Vries with his one off race Williams scoring points. When he got a full time ride he looked terrible and didn't make it a full season. The same could be true to some of the other drivers moving up. Next year there are atleast 4 rookie drivers Kimi, Liam, Oliver, and Jack D. None of these drivers won a championship in F3 or F2. Oliver and Liam seem to be consistent, Kimi is defiantly a wild card and Jack will likely struggle as Alpine looks to be a very inconsistent car. I am sure Drugovich would be very upset in addition to the many other drivers jockying for a F1 ride, if calipinto got the Audi ride. Things just got worse for those in the feeder series as Indycar went to a charter system, there is a surplus of young drivers and nowhere to go, because neither series wants to open the door to new teams.
In reply to trigun7469 :
I understand, and agree. Trust me, being a Nascar fan, Michael Waltrip had a ride, for well over 400 races before he won something. But, loud, sponsor friendly, name...
Lewis still fights in the front half of the field lots of days, and has won a race this year. There's a dozen good reasons to keep him around until he is tired, or worn out, or demonstrably slower than his team mate. Checo. Sargent. Lance. Oops. That was supposed to be my inside voice.
I also have no problem with new guys getting axed when they can't do the job. Sargent, I presume, got a whole bunch more time based on his being American, and all the deep desire to make F1 a force in the US. What he did, though, was delay Williams improvement, cut into their spending budget, and make everyone look bad.
In reply to Streetwiseguy :
Think about what Sainz Jr. did wrong to lose his ride with Ferrari? Nothing, but the availability of Hamilton. Hamilton did win a race this year, but there is alot pressure with Ferrari, it will be interesting if he prioritizes his brand or his driving first. Checo has sponsorship and the ride next to Max without Newey is not necessarily sought after and has strings attached as being #2. None of the top drivers were seeking a ride with RB and most of the RB Jr. are being cast aside before even given the chance. Bottas going to Audi is probably the most boring decision that can be made.
I don't see any top drivers jumping at the chance to join the RB meat grinder as Max's teamate.
Horner is after Russel,I wouldn't think he'd leave Merc and the clear #1 seat to go to RB.
VCARB's new driver Liam Lawson, who replaces Daniel Ricciardo for the rest of this season will start 10 places back from his sprint qualifying spot in Austin after his team decided to equip his VCARB01 F1 car with a new power unit.
In reply to tarach :
Can they put a new power unit in his canoe?
Why don't they just sell the team to Andretti already.. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alpine-to-end-f1-engine-programme-after-2025/10659346/
EDIT: The Race needs to get out of my head.. https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/renault-f1-team-near-inevitable-sale-explained/
Keith Tanner said:In reply to loosecannon :
It also coincided with the change to the hybrid cars. They're a lot more complex to drive. I think Danny adapted faster than Seb did.
Similar with Schumacher -- he retired in 2006 when Ferrari had bespoke Bridgestone tires and came back in 2010 with the spec "FIA wants them to degrade" tires. That was a big change in driving style, all of the other drivers had 3 years to adjust to them and he had none of that experience.
Also, Schumacher was always at his strongest when he could push, push, push for the entire race (see Hungary '98). The bespoke Bridgestones and ability to refuel the car (and thus run shorter stints at a lighter weight) made that work, but with the control tire you had to be a lot more careful with them. The sport had changed, it didn't suit his strengths any more, and he was never able to recapture the former glory.
There's a lot more to F1 than just "who's the best driver". Best in what way?
In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :
Every move that Alpine makes seems like a opening door for Andretti, yet even with Michael stepping down they don't want anything to do with Andretti. The logic behind Andretti and Caddy would not add market value to F1 is pretty ridiculous.
In reply to trigun7469 :
Based on team andretti's record in IndyCar I just can't see what they would bring to Formula 1, they can't beat Team Chip or Roger in a spec series and even McLaren is more competitive than Andretti's team. Caddy is not exactly know for it's performance cred and is not a big Global player in luxury cars either. It's not like it would strengthen the fan base from that TV show because those fans all drive GM cars. Yeah, I fail to see how they would improve the competiveness in F1 or even add to "the show".
It's really sad that Renault stopped it's engine program. We must remember that Renault changed F1 forever when they re-introduced boosting back in the late 70s. Very bold move, as they showed the massive potential for turbocharging on one hand, and barely won on the other- pretty much showing every other engine maker the weaknesses that need to be addressed prior to putting them on the track. Seems like of all the engine makers, only Hart had less success.
It wasn't until F1 went back to NA did they have success. And they won 6 championships in the 90's.
They were bold and introduced all of us to a very memorable era of F1 racing, won many championships, and now it's over.
In reply to alfadriver :
So someone asked about other engines in F1 thanks to a post I made in a different forum. And it got me thinking more about how significant Renault's turbo ended up being.
Before the Renault- there were just a handful of engines- Cosworth and Ferrari at the pointy end, Alfa kind of in the middle, BRM, Matra, had come and gone. But most of the field were Cosworth DFVs. And one will note that other than Ferrari, there were no significant OEM's in the field.
Then Renault came in with the turbo. Showed the potential and people started looking at the cost and complexity compared to the NA engines- and before you knew it, BMW, Porsche, and Honda were names in the field. Porsche didn't last too long, but they were there. BMW's effort was almost simple- take a small iron block, boost the crap out of it, and win races. Honda dedicated a team of engineers to make an engine. And even small Hart came to supply engines.
And, mind you, this was just as Bernie transformed the sport to be more professional- so it was a big risk for all of those OEM's as they figured out what they could get out of it.
When they transformed back to NA- then the OEM gates opened- Peugeot, Chrysler(Lamborghini), Mercedes with Illmore, Yamaha, Subaru, etc... Most had little success, but the fact that they tried was cool.
And, as I see it, it can be traced to huge OEM Renault trying a 1.5l V6 Turbo in 1977. It's really too bad that they could not figure out the hybrid era system.
Did I miss some Indycar news that matters in F1? I just saw news that Michael has relinquished his ownership role of Andretti Racing.
What?
Ten years ago today, Jules Bianchi crashed during the 2014 Japanese Grand Prix and never woke up.
alfadriver said:Did I miss some Indycar news that matters in F1? I just saw news that Michael has relinquished his ownership role of Andretti Racing.
What?
He still has ownership
https://apnews.com/article/indycar-andretti-towriss-ownership-0675f357777558dc36050a42b53de451
In reply to tarach :
I hadn't ever seen the crash. That was a huge impact.
Rip Jules.
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
I'd never seen that angle.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to wvumtnbkr :
I'd never seen that angle.
Me, either. Such an awful situation, several things that never should have happened did, and a man died as a result. 
I had seen that angle before. I think we talked about it on the forum back then but the ability to post gifs etc wasn't as easy in 2014.
The speed was a topic, he was pushing to the edge, as was normal in that time for safety car or yellow flag situations. It is equally amazing that one of the course workers wasn't killed.
The VSC and Halo have definitely improved safety.
Toyota reach an agreement with to supply engines to HAAS. Didn't see that coming
bruceman said:Toyota reach an agreement with to supply engines to HAAS. Didn't see that coming
I didn't see that. I saw they had a technical agreement with Toyota to use some of Toyotas resources. The agreements with Ferrari are still in place from what I have seen.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/toyota-return-to-f1-as-they-sign-multi-year-technical-partnership-with-haas.1WFIOvxjafXJWzM7qrvKqD
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
Big step from rich energy.
I can see it as Toyota putting a toe in the water to see if they want to come back. But also it seems the racing industry is creating these situations to justify having the capital and human resources expense for full Lemans program they need to share the financial burden across another set of budget books with an F1 team. The value per capital investment dollar is more spread out.
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