Formula One - 2017

Whether you put gravel, grass or have a high Kerb drivers will use them; I know there are plenty of guys here that will remember Senna passing on the grass, in the rain at Spa! 

I can't even begin to comprehend level of talent that Max possesses and I've passed on the far side of the kerbing  in supposedly gentile vintage races.........God forbid I had 1/2 that talent level.........I'd be driving over the sidewalk at Casino Hairpin and this is why we racing have Stewards.......because drivers are drivers.

It was a very good race and for the record I wouldn't have given a penalty. 

Cracking up @ “gentile vintage cars”. I know it was a typo, but that’s hilarious man!

You know it's real easy. Turtles and Corner bumps. They have added them to a lot of circuits out there including Austria. They have added a few at Cota but there is still a lot of places they could be added. That would keep people from short cutting T19 and the T3-6 complex. It was so nice working out at Leguna Seca and not hearing the word track limit once all weekend. 

In other more fun news, Brandon Hartley kept his seat for the Mexico GP this week. That has twitter going nuts. 

I"ve not been a big MAx fan in the past, but I'm 100% with him on this one.  There were lot's of people gaining an advantage all weekend and passing 4 off with no congruencies.  This is Sainz pass on Perez with no penalty.

I completely agree. A little politicing?? Ferrari has always enjoyed the "Jordan effect" (Michael Jordan never being charged with traveling on his dunks)

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

Nothing wrong there.   If it sticks, use it.

F1 has started posting highlights from the drivers meetings on their Youtube channel.  The next one should be pretty interesting!

It's funny that Max has been complaining about being singled out after getting everything short of public pleasuring by Bernie since he arrived on the scene. He's the FIA golden boy, but I guess Whiting didn't get the memo this time. And that wasn't just a little bit outside limits.

It was good to see how careful Lewis was when getting past Max. Verstappen has nothing to lose, Lewis is playing for the whole enchilada. Same as with Malaysia, it wasn't worth getting tangled up with the kid.

Adrian_Thompson said:

I"ve not been a big MAx fan in the past, but I'm 100% with him on this one.  There were lot's of people gaining an advantage all weekend and passing 4 off with no congruencies.  This is Sainz pass on Perez with no penalty.

 

I think it's a BS call, but I believe the difference is where Sainz's tires are.  Sainz is off the "track" but his left tires are still on the kerbing.  In Max's case, his right tires were on the grass and his left tires were in the solid red.  So, if the kerbs are where the stripes are and going on to a kerb is OK, I can see where going past those strips would be considered "off track".  I don't know about the other incidences, just pointing it out on the one above.

-Rob

IIRC, the track limit is the white line painted on the asphalt, not the kerbs.  If so, then yes, Sainz should have gotten a penalty too.

codrus, your understanding is correct -- the track is the white lines, so Sainz was definitely 4 wheels off there. 

The difference, in the eyes of the stewards, is that Sainz didn't make the pass in that corner.  It took him something like 6 corners to make the pass, so by their twisted rational, going 4 off there didn't allow him to "gain a lasting advantage."  Anyone who knows anything knows this is rubbish, if he hadn't gone 4 off there he would have had to have backed off and wouldn't have been in a position to pass 6 corners later, but that's the way they think.

Also, the stewards seem to take all kinds of irrelevant facts into account -- whether anyone was looking (nobody really cared about the battle for 7th, but Verstappen's move was for a podium), whether it was at the beginning/middle/end of a race (they're very, very lenient during the first few laps, and very, very strict during the last few), and whether or not a Ferrari was involved :-P

@ track mouse; vintage racing supposedly showcases a time when racers were unorthodox, if one is not orthodox than they would indeed be a gentile. Additionally at the beginning of the day there is an invocation by a minister (gentile) yet I know there are several drivers who are Jewish, one who is a Buddhist  and three who are Muslim, hence my "supposedly" gentile comment. (This is my explanation and I'm sticking to it, I do appreciate your "genteel" handling of the matter.....farging auto correct)

Back to reality; so Max known for barging through, leaves loads of room rather than scuffing across Kimi's car and he gets dinged for it. Further he would have gotten by on one of the last  two corners. Yes a black and white interpretation leaves Max exactly where he is now but discipline needs consistency and they let other moves go. One could successfully argue either side of this but my view is they should have left it be.

Man I guess I didn't think twice about the call to penalize Vers. He wasn't forced off by Kimi. (Many call out Bottas but he was hip checked off track most of the times he ended up four off and I think still lost the position or at least gained nothing. ) Sainz battled Perez over many corners to win his pass. Max just didn't do that and as his teammate said earlier in the season he acts out like a spoiled brat when he can't get his way. So he made no effort to make the corner that Kimi left him room on so yes penalty seemed fine to me. 

Before, during, and after I actively road raced I found the idea of stewards making the call to be the best path. Humans will need to be in the loop to determine if someone truly gained an advantage or not by going off track. Dodging debris or being forced off shouldn't cause you to be penalized unless you drove by a few cars because of it. 

Humans would have to guess on physical barriers or deterrents.

Humans would program the software to guess when an automatic penalty is applied. 

So humans will always be in the loop. 

Improving the stewards system is optimal for this high level of professional club racing called F1.

On the up side I am happy for Sainz. I think Hulk might be surprised at how fast his new teammate is. Hopefully they have reliable cars next year at least.

Hamilton will probably win  the championship in Mexico barring some collision. I think the red bulls have a good chance of taking the race win though. I mean Adrian Newey car on a high altitude high down force track! 

I sure hope Force India makes it into 2018. Ocon needs to have a seat until Kimi retires or Bottas needs to be replaced.

Haas in year two still impress. I hope they get closer to a force India level next year.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

What you don't see in that picture is the big piece of magnussen front splitter that was left just out of the camera shot there. If Sainz would have taken a line that was actually not all 4 off, he would have not had a tire left probably because the it would have cut the tire down. I was about 40 ft from this shot drivers right just out of the cam shot when this happened. 

GP of Mexico live on NBC main network right now.

Wow.

Watching Hamilton take the blue flag for Max to get through made me think of the time Max and he were in the pre-podium room and Max said to Hamilton "I was catching you" and Hamilton just laughed and said "no you weren't".  

When he said it, I knew the status quo wouldn't last, but I didn't expect it quite so soon!

I suspect the Mercedes power unit is having an issue but for sure it's Max is a man on the rise. Alonso is currently not rolling over and Hamilton is being made to work hard for 9th.

The issue is not with the power unit.  The Mercedes chassis has not been all that good on low speed tracks.

Not the way Lewis would want to win the championship.  That Merc is not well suited to Mexico, but I wonder whether there is more damage from the early contact?  It's also possible Lewis doesn't see the point of torturing the car.

And, with Maxes pace today, I don't think Lewis was winning this race anyway.

Congrats to Hamilton for driving smart all year long. He really impressed me with how mature he has been this season compared to the last few. A well deserved championship. 

Max was stellar today. 

Wonder if that Seb contact on Hammy was intentional. He isn't a cool cucumber. If it was, it was the worst idea. Fantastic drive by Max. Soon to be a WDC, no doubt of that. Alonso also had a great drive considering his starting position and this having that insane front straight. Glad for Hammy, too bad he was never in the mix.

On the Sky coverage, they started to ask Christian Horner about the Renault failures, and he cut them off. "Don't say it!!" They asked him instead how fast his foot was tapping on the chair.  "Faster than the turbocharger on Maxes car!"

I like him.

markwemple said:

Wonder if that Seb contact on Hammy was intentional. He isn't a cool cucumber. If it was, it was the worst idea.

I know Hamilton suggested that on the radio, but I think that was just gamesmanship.  Vettel was clearly sawing at the wheel, and he had Max on the inside.  Plus, using your fragile front wing to try to cut a tire would be monumentally stupid, you're guaranteeing yourself damage.  

Max was on another level.  Wow.  He will be WDC as soon as Red Bull can put a consistently capable car under him.