FORMULA ONE - 2019

Not pleased with the outcome of today as Leclerc had to be left room per the regulations, but the race leading up to that moment was phenomenal and the Red Bull Ring delivered on everything the French GP did not.

what a great weekend. 

Leclerc would have backed off if there was a wall there.  He should have backed off today.

//stirs the pot///

I’m not a Max fan, I think he’s a talented thug. He had the position but intentionally and unnecessary slammed the door....but really glad to see Honda back on top of the podium!

Ver Crashing as I've called him did leave Leclerc room per the rules, the problem is the room he left meant Leclerc would have to fall in behind Verstapen and Leclerc wasn't willing to do that.

If I were in either drivers shoes I would have done exactly as they did; they're is no blame for either driver. Both fought fiercely for the win and we got to see a race we'll talk about for weeks. The fans won today.

Tom1200 said:

Keith actually Leclerc did turn into Verstapen (note I'm a Hamilton fan); if you take a look at the helicopter overhead shot Verstapen goes straight on almost parallel to the apex then turns in. Leclerc turns on a more normal line almost as if he was going to do an over and under style repass attempt, the trajectory could have only resulted in contact. Yes it was an aggressive block pass by Verstapen but Leclerc wasn't about roll over so he held his ground and subsequently ran out of ground. 

Both drivers committed 100% to a trajectory and one of them got the short end. For me it's a racing incident. It reminded of the Al Unser Jr v Fittipaldi Indy contact we Unser said "one of us wasn't going to come out of it" 

Naturally if I were Leclerc I'd be pissed too, guys at this level don't like finishing 2nd.

From what I gather, more people on here than not understand that there's a racing line, but when you talk to fair-weather fans, it's never discussed-much less understood.

It's really been annoying hearing people compare this incident to Hammy v. Nico from a few years back. Nico was ahead, trying to defend his position on the racing line, when he pushed Hamilton far off of the racing line while making no attempt to get back to it. Just wrong!

One looks at LeClerc and his choice (while leading) not to defend the racing line, choosing instead to attempt an "over/under" maneuver. Both drivers left their braking late, missing the apex (part of the racing line). This is technique one learns at Skip Barber-like beginner classes, which are classes all of these guys attended at one point or another, and that is to brake later and longer if you're attempting a pass at a corner because that racing line is now further away. 

 While several regions within the sanctioning bodies here in the states may frown upon these types of passes (car damage reduction), it's "de rigueur" in Europe, which is why I don't get LeClerc's anger. I believe it's more so down to losing that position rather than the way it was done and that anger manifested in him turning into Verstappen.

Anyway, racing line and who's on it and at what particular time, never gets brought up and it gets annoying! Thanks Grassroots for this oasis of sanity!  Rant over! 

More Leclerc and VER talk, I wonder what was said during the drivers meeting, as far as opening the gates for letting people pass.  What ever was said they actually made a show and the driving looked less robotic. VER was obviously going to pass Leclerc, probably didn't need to hip check him, but atleast we saw some passion. I think that the MERC 1-2 will comeback the next couply races, but altleast we saw some excitement, and VER's car looked next level race, RedBull did a phenomenal job on the setup.

I've mentioned it before - but it's notable that with all the passes in this race, only Max made contact with another car. Norris was really impressive on car placement.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Max made a pass-LeClerc turned into him! That was clear on the replays.

In reply to 2GRX7 :

It was within LeClarc's rights to attempt to stay on the track.  If Max had attempted that pass on a street circuit it would have taken them both out.

Streetwiseguy said:

Leclerc would have backed off if there was a wall there.  He should have backed off today.

//stirs the pot///

Exactly right?!? Somehow Vettel has precise millisecond control over his machine at all times and Hamilton had no duty whatsoever to avoid a crash but when it's LeClerc in the red car suddenly Verstappen is the bad guy and needs to avoid a wreck when LeClerc is turning in on him?!? What a bunch of bologna!

Vettel won in France, Verstappen won in Austria. (Says this Hamilton fan)

Javelin said:

Streetwiseguy said:

Leclerc would have backed off if there was a wall there.  He should have backed off today.

//stirs the pot///

Exactly right?!? Somehow Vettel has precise millisecond control over his machine at all times and Hamilton had no duty whatsoever to avoid a crash but when it's LeClerc in the red car suddenly Verstappen is the bad guy and needs to avoid a wreck when LeClerc is turning in on him?!? What a bunch of bologna!

Vettel won in Canada, Verstappen won in Austria. (Says this Hamilton fan)

Fixed that last line for you.

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

It's French Canada 

2GRX7 said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Max made a pass-LeClerc turned into him! That was clear on the replays.

Clear to you. To me, I saw two cars side by side, and the one on the inside pushed the one on the outside off the track. They hit wheel to wheel, which means they were right beside each other.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I think it's clear that your fan biases cloud your vision or judgement. 

alfadriver said:

For the best of the rest, again, is McLaren. They are looking better and better. 

Isn't it intriguing how RB/Renault and McLaren/Honda were both struggling, but just in swapping partners RB/Honda and McLaren/Renault are BOTH doing world's better? I'm happy for both teams! And Sainz from P19 to P8?!? 

Mike924 said:

Just read that Ferrari is withdrawing their appeal of the call.  There was a video that the stewards used which showed Vettel purposely moving to the right.  It was a CCTV video and basically it displayed Vettel fighting the car to get it back on the track.  Then as he was steering left, he took a look in his mirror; apparently seeing Hamilton behind him; releasing the wheel so the car would go right hence keeping Hamilton behind him.  

 

Somehow I missed this comment, but I wanted to point out that this is completely fake news. Ferrari did not withdraw their penalty and no video shows Vettel "checking his mirror then turning right" to block Hamilton. 

Maybe we should just agree that some people like racing, and others like track days.

//stirs pot even harder//

Javelin said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I think it's clear that your fan biases cloud your vision or judgement. 

Or I just don't understand, which is more likely. To you, Max was ahead. To me, I don't see that and I offered my reasoning. 

Javelin said:

alfadriver said:

For the best of the rest, again, is McLaren. They are looking better and better. 

Isn't it intriguing how RB/Renault and McLaren/Honda were both struggling, but just in swapping partners RB/Honda and McLaren/Renault are BOTH doing world's better? I'm happy for both teams! And Sainz from P19 to P8?!? 

Look at it this way - both teams got rid of an anchor. Renault no longer has to deal with Horner slagging them at every opportunity. McLaren no longer has to deal with Alonso slagging them at every opportunity. Both groups are free to concentrate on racing now. Horner won't slag Honda because he's still in the honeymoon period and he's kinda burned all his other bridges.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Honda also will build a setup to fit the Red bull because they are the #1 client/only client. 

Red bull started playing second fiddle when the factory Renault team began competing again. 

spacecadet said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Honda also will build a setup to fit the Red bull because they are the #1 client/only client. 

Red bull started playing second fiddle when the factory Renault team began competing again. 

Didn't the #1 client concept handicap Honda when McLaren was pushing for the "size zero" concept? Honda definitely seemed to be on the resurgence last year with the Toro Rosso team.

Horner would be a hard guy to work for if you weren't on his good guy list. Mercedes and Ferrari seem to be able to put reasonable powerplants in their customer cars. That's an interesting take that Renault pushed RB down the priority list when they started racing their own team. Although what's the cause and what's the effect? Did they decide to go their own way to get the sort of attention that Ferrari and Mercedes get and Red Bull got the shaft? Or did Horner push them out? It would be interesting to take a good look at the performance with that in mind.

Keith Tanner said:

Javelin said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I think it's clear that your fan biases cloud your vision or judgement. 

Or I just don't understand, which is more likely. To you, Max was ahead. To me, I don't see that and I offered my reasoning. 

And with ^THIS^ you've gained my full respect! To simply say that one doesn't understand instead of fighting tooth and nail over a subject that they're not sure of is commendable.

If you're in P1, your lead protects your priority to the racing line. If you've moved off/away from the racing line (thereby increasing your positioning away from that line) you risk being overtaken. LeClerc gambled on Verstappen late-braking and going off the track which would have allowed him to complete what's called the "over/under move. In F1, you're allowed one move prior to entering into the braking zone. LeClerc chose to "leave the door open". In the following pic, you can see LeClerc off of the racing line and Verstappen on the "overtake" line into the corner;

Verstappen did, in fact, late brake, but he stayed on the track

Now here's where the bone of contention could have come up. If Verstappen had jinked his steering wheel to the left into LeClerc, THAT could have lead to a penalty, but in-car video proved otherwise;

Even during the "tracking out" process, Verstappen stayed on the track. Textbook-and with it being Verstappen, that's a big FINALLY!

  Do they allow this type of racing in the amateur leagues in the U.S.-depends on the sanctioning body/region, but in general, they want you coming back and constant corner crashing means more budget for repairs and a whole lot less money for entry fees. In Europe, this is commonplace.

SERIOUSLY Y'ALL?!!??!?!?! 

In reply to 2GRX7 :

LeClerc was on the faster racing line (most weren't going to the inside curb at the apex there, just watch his pole lap where he is a car width off of it like most others) and Max knew he would get a better run off the corner like he did the lap before where he took back the lead after Max's attempt. Max purposely went deep up the inside and pushed him off the track (over the sausage curb) to screw up his run down the next straight. It's another classic Max move where if the other driver doesn't concede they both wreck (imagine they all raced like that). I'm all for good racing and that is what we saw on the previous lap when they were wheel to wheel and both gave each other room, it's a shame he had to do it like this with such a fast car.

Adam

Verstappen was very clever to wait until Leclerc crossed the DRS line before he (Verstappen) did, because it meant he had DRS on the next straight and robbed DRS from Leclerc