FoRS Depriciation. “Buy it Now” or wait another year.

dculberson said:

 

Terry Fair's had his clashes here, on this very forum, and didn't come across well to me. (Called someone an idiot and banned them from buying from them ever again, all for canceling an order before it even shipped. Yep, real winner there.)

I've been a member on CornerCarvers since last century, although I rarely post there, and he's even managed to be a D.bag by their notoriously hostile standards.  Again, I've never met him and what I've seen of the cars he's built and the products he sells, his work and engineering is absolulty 100% top notch.  He comes across as such a tool, if I'm ever in the market for BMW or Ford parts, my $$'s will go elsewhere. 

dculberson said:

DirtyBird222 said:
Farah has a diarrhea of the mouth problem. Take a look at his twitter if you need empirical evidence of that. 

I see nothing to hint that anything he has to say about a car would be tainted due to his twitter. Is it because you disagree with his politics or how he says it?

Farah has nothing to do with this.  The comment I made was that it was the people from Mountune who stated that there is no temp sensor in the RDU, proving the lack of Terry Fair's actual knowledge in contrast to his stated expertize.  

dculberson said:

 

DirtyBird222 said:
Farah has a diarrhea of the mouth problem. Take a look at his twitter if you need empirical evidence of that. 

I see nothing to hint that anything he has to say about a car would be tainted due to his twitter. Is it because you disagree with his politics or how he says it?

I could care less what his political views are, what yours are, or anyone elses and not sure where you extrapolated that from with my previous statement....but anyways....read what z31maniac said. I'm speaking in terms of his automotive prowess and profesionalism that's all. 

DirtyBird222 said:

I could care less what his political views are, what yours are, or anyone elses and not sure where you extrapolated that from with my previous statement....but anyways....read what z31maniac said. I'm speaking in terms of his automotive prowess and profesionalism that's all. 

I'm the one who brought Farah's name into this conversation.  It was only to bring up his Podcast where MOUNTUNE, the people who tune his and many other Ford products with Ford's blessing, stated that there is no temp sensor in the RDU.  Think what you like of him, his politics, his driving ability, his journalistic ability or integrity.  It has nothing to do with the point that Mountune showed that Terry Fair doesn't know as much as he claims to, or swears is true.  

Adrian_Thompson said:

DirtyBird222 said:

I could care less what his political views are, what yours are, or anyone elses and not sure where you extrapolated that from with my previous statement....but anyways....read what z31maniac said. I'm speaking in terms of his automotive prowess and profesionalism that's all. 

I'm the one who brought Farah's name into this conversation.  It was only to bring up his Podcast where MOUNTUNE, the people who tune his and many other Ford products with Ford's blessing, stated that there is no temp sensor in the RDU.  Think what you like of him, his politics, his driving ability, his journalistic ability or integrity.  It has nothing to do with the point that Mountune showed that Terry Fair doesn't know as much as he claims to, or swears is true.  

Aren't there quite a few Ford engines that don't even use coolant temp sensors anymore, but base it off cylinder head temp? So extrapolating based off one or more sensors that don't directly measure the coolant temp.

Do any "oil life monitors" actually do real-time oil analysis, or is this ECU guessing based a number of usage factors? 

If the RDU doesn't have an "actual temp sensor," it's likely extrapolating other data to "guess" when it's overheated? Such as using the PTU sensor?

I guess my point is, whether there is a "physical sensor" the ECU is smart enough to determine when it's overheating and provide the warning? Right?

I find the techincal info, data, video, and other information Vorshlag shares to be amazing. The only other companies I think of, or at least that I'm familar with, that share so much data are Flyin' Miata and 949 Racing.

 

Do any "oil life monitors" actually do real-time oil analysis, or is this ECU guessing based a number of usage factors?

None that I know of.  Everything is based on some combination of pedal position/load/air,coolant,oil temps/speed, and maybe a few others.  

We have real time sensors on dyno engines at work.  I cant see using them in a mass production vehicle.  

DirtyBird222 said:

I could care less what his political views are, what yours are, or anyone elses and not sure where you extrapolated that from with my previous statement....but anyways....read what z31maniac said. I'm speaking in terms of his automotive prowess and profesionalism that's all. 

I just noticed he had a fair number of political posts, is all. You said he had diarrhea of the mouth on Twitter, and that's all I saw that looked out of place.

The temp sensor is in the transaxle/PTO and the ECU calculates the temp of the RDU.

Adrian_Thompson said:

dculberson said:

 

Terry Fair's had his clashes here, on this very forum, and didn't come across well to me. (Called someone an idiot and banned them from buying from them ever again, all for canceling an order before it even shipped. Yep, real winner there.)

I've been a member on CornerCarvers since last century, although I rarely post there, and he's even managed to be a D.bag by their notoriously hostile standards.  Again, I've never met him and what I've seen of the cars he's built and the products he sells, his work and engineering is absolulty 100% top notch.  He comes across as such a tool, if I'm ever in the market for BMW or Ford parts, my $$'s will go elsewhere. 

 

I know Terry in passing, a friend of mine who is a longtime buddy of his made an amusing comment about him once. 

"well by the end of this quarter he'll have successfully pissed off half his customer base again" 

He's very proud of what he does and he does things his way and it endears him to some and makes him look like a jackass to others/most. 

I drive competitively a car that has parts on it built by his shop. they are nice parts, i don't know what they cost, but he's awfully proud of almost everything he makes price wise. 
 

In reply to z31maniac :

Ran the VIN, but the warranty is also a Ford RAV warranty.

You can sometimes get a really good deal on buyback cars, and that wouldn’t necessarily stop me from buying one (I have actually) but I’d be wary of the history on that one. 

Also... the cylinder head temp sensor is used for ECT because it will give a reliable reading even after you run out of coolant. Your traditional sensor will only read accurately with coolant running over it. 

Stefan said:

The temp sensor is in the transaxle/PTO and the ECU calculates the temp of the RDU.

Yep, that's why I mentioned the PTU sensor + ECU + "guess." All of my post was kind of rhetorical since I know the answers to the questions I posted. 

I get why Terry annoys/pisses some people off. But he provides lots of info and is straight forward about things, and he and his staff were always helpful when I would email them questions. But I was also never bothering them with dumb questions like, "Can you tell me how to put an LS1 in my E36 because I don't want to pay for your proprietary parts?"

In reply to Saron81 :

What is the RAV warranty? Give the history of the early cars and oil consumption (and wasn't there some other common TERMINAL failure on the early cars?) I'd be hesistant too.

In reply to z31maniac :

Fords reaquired vehicle warranty. 12/12 bumper to bumper (on top of whatever factory warranty is left.) 

z31maniac said:

Stefan said:

The temp sensor is in the transaxle/PTO and the ECU calculates the temp of the RDU.

Yep, that's why I mentioned the PTU sensor + ECU + "guess." All of my post was kind of rhetorical since I know the answers to the questions I posted. 

I get why Terry annoys/pisses some people off. But he provides lots of info and is straight forward about things, and he and his staff were always helpful when I would email them questions. But I was also never bothering them with dumb questions like, "Can you tell me how to put an LS1 in my E36 because I don't want to pay for your proprietary parts?"

Not a guess.  Its a calculation.  Quite a lot of things on modern cars work that way.

Stefan said:

z31maniac said:

Stefan said:

The temp sensor is in the transaxle/PTO and the ECU calculates the temp of the RDU.

Yep, that's why I mentioned the PTU sensor + ECU + "guess." All of my post was kind of rhetorical since I know the answers to the questions I posted. 

I get why Terry annoys/pisses some people off. But he provides lots of info and is straight forward about things, and he and his staff were always helpful when I would email them questions. But I was also never bothering them with dumb questions like, "Can you tell me how to put an LS1 in my E36 because I don't want to pay for your proprietary parts?"

Not a guess.  Its a calculation.  Quite a lot of things on modern cars work that way.

That's why I put it in quotes. I'm aware of how it works (that's why I also brought up oil life monitors and the ECU) and why I used the correct term of PTU as Ford calls it. 

The fact is, it's still a guess based on previous test data and the control data, that is put in the code and used in the future. What if the new oil has a manufacturing defect or doesn't meet the proper quality standard? What if there is manufacturing defect in one of the clutch discs of the RDU? Then the code used for the calculations is worthless. That's the context I meant for it to be a "guess." 

PS: 

1: I’ve already said I have zero intentions of tracking the car, at which point the “RDU issue” should be a non-issue, so maybe

C: Yourself out of this thread and create a new one for bagging on the BMW guys?

z31maniac said:

Aren't there quite a few Ford engines that don't even use coolant temp sensors anymore, but base it off cylinder head temp? So extrapolating based off one or more sensors that don't directly measure the coolant temp.

You have it backwards.  Other manufacturers extrapolate cylinder head temp from coolant temp.  Ford measures it directly.

Combustion doesn't care how hot or cold the coolant is, it cares about how hot the chamber is.

But, most manufacturers extrapolate things like oil temperature and catalyst temperature from models.  If you add an oil cooler or move the cat five feet down the pipe, the computer isn't going to know that without changing the modeling.  Similarly, you can add a cooler to the RDU and the controller won't know that.

I do note that HPT allows you to play with the RDU on the RS.  Have no idea what is playable in there. 

Also, it's threads like these that caused a car to depreciate by 30% or so in two or three years, so... thanks for giving a po' boy a chance to buy something awesome as a newer car, and not as the last stop before the junkyard.

Can we talk about head gaskets next?  It's only six months until Christmas and I want something lurid blue under my tree.

In reply to Knurled. :

I dunno, I think it's the reviews saying the thing rides like a buckboard, the head gasket issues and the fact that Ford no longer makes it that caused the depreciation.  Oh, and that it's a Ford.

I'd wait a yr or 2 for them to depreciate more. It would also make it easier for financing (unless you make ridiculous amounts of money and have ridiculous amounts of money in your bank account)... Also one thing to consider is that you'll be adding 20k miles a year just in commuting. So buying one now and driving it for a year makes the 25k miles it has now at least 45k miles a year from now. If you wait a yr, you can still find one with 25k on it for less money than they are now and with less miles than if you bought one now.

I sat in one this weekend.  I love the seat.  Fits me perfectly.

Ugh, forgot to ask him if he had the optional seats or not.

Also, it's threads like these that caused a car to depreciate by 30% or so in two or three years, so... thanks for giving a po' boy a chance to buy something awesome as a newer car, and not as the last stop before the junkyard.

I think it will continue, and anyone wanting a 'good deal' on an RS should just wait because they'll all be 'good deals' in a couple of years.  I think it'll continue to suffer some of the worst depreciation of any car of its type.  

Vigo said:

Also, it's threads like these that caused a car to depreciate by 30% or so in two or three years, so... thanks for giving a po' boy a chance to buy something awesome as a newer car, and not as the last stop before the junkyard.

I think it will continue, and anyone wanting a 'good deal' on an RS should just wait because they'll all be 'good deals' in a couple of years.  I think it'll continue to suffer some of the worst depreciation of any car of its type.  

Possibly. OTOH if you look at what's happening with Evo Xs, it'll likely become much harder to find a good one in fairly short order.

That's precisely why I bought my FR-S...brand new. I knew exactly what type of people the car attracts.

Ask yourself when's the last time you've seen a dead stock EVO VIII or STi for sale? And when you did, how much was it?

Appleseed said:

That's precisely why I bought my FR-S...brand new. I knew exactly what type of people the car attracts.

Ask yourself when's the last time you've seen a dead stock STi for sale? And when you did, how much was it?

Last year, and I could buy a brand new WRX cheaper than a stock, mid mileaged 04 STI. 

Knurled. said:

I sat in one this weekend.  I love the seat.  Fits me perfectly.

 

Ugh, forgot to ask him if he had the optional seats or not.

Power movement and partial leather is the option, that should tell you what you sat in.