Fox Body Mustang

After a roller coaster ride to trade/sell the Subaru wagon I've finally sold it and my old Civic too. Now after years of irritating the secretary at my wife's school she is willing to sell me her 1989 Mustang 5.0 LX, notch back. It's in like new condition with 100,000km's on it and it has never seen rain or snow. The best part is it's a 5 speed and even my wife is on board (kind of).

I want to use it as an autocrosser and daily driver and I have lots of 15" R-Compounds sitting in the basement, only problem is they are only 205/50's (from my Civic). I even have some RE01Rs' that are 195's that I could put on the night before and drive to the race, thereby eliminating the tire switch at the track.

Do you think these tires will be wide enough? I'll be dealing with more than 90lb ft of torque, that I was used to with the Honda, that is for sure. Any cheap ideas to get it to handle and tame the live axle? I'm already looking for cheap 15" Mustang rims and I'm sure I could sell my old Civic rims.

I'm excited to have a V8 to play with even if it is only 4.9L's, not a true 5.0 as indicated by the badging. ha. I don't know what rear-end it has but I should have it here soon and will post pics. Might have to stop with the Ford jokes now...

Thanks in advance, Glenn

Those tires won't be wide enough. You could use them but they won't last long. Depending on what class you plan on running in get the widest wheel you can run.

If you can do it legally update to SN95 suspension. That is the front spindle & brakes and then convert to 5 lug rear as well. There are various ways to do this. My suggestion is to visit "Corral.net" and do some searching and reading. There are so many options for the Mustangs that it's impossible to no more then scratch the surface here.

The final drive ratio is most likely 2.73:1 or the optional 3.08:1. I owned 3 Mustangs, one with the 3.08, another with 3.55's and one with 3.73s. For AX/DD the 3.55 would be best compromise. You give up a few MPG's but you gain performance. With the 2.73 or 3.08 I have heard some Mustang owners have pulled 30+ MPGs, my best with 3.55's was 27 and most of the time 25 HWY. The 3.73 car was fun to drive but it should have been as it was my race car!

Cars have come a long way, but in 1987 my F Stock Mustang 5.0 was on the hot tire - Yokohama A-001R 215/60-15. Once the A-008R came along we moved to the 225/50 and were living large. The world wasn't going to get any better than that.

Just some perspective from the good ole days.

rustysteel wrote: I don't know what rear-end it has but I should have it here soon and will post pics.

Inside the driver door is a printed code label. Axle M (or N?) is the 2.73, Z is the magic 3.08. Most likely 2.73 as most of the 3.08 were special order cars.

There is also a 3.27 gear option as well.

Always liked the notches.

I'd wrap the thing in plastic and stick in the garage for another 10 years. Those cars will be bank very, very soon. When's the last time you even saw a stock 5.0 notch?

But yes, those tires are too small. The stock size was a 215 or 225 depending on year, and the wheelwells fit 245's up front and 275's out back.

+1 on Javelin's advice. There are very few original notchbacks left. '89 is a great year, as it has the Mass air EFI but without the airbag wheel.

If you do autocross it, I wouldn't go any lower than 225 width (and 245 would be preferable).

Thanks for all the input, I will check the driver's door and see what code it has. Looks like I'm going to have a tire sale and look for some larger tires. Some RS3's would look pretty sweet. I just found out it needs a heater core but it's going to be a fair weather car so no rush to fix it. Plus I hate doing heater core's.

JFX001 wrote: There is also a 3.27 gear option as well..

Only optional behind automatics, though. If it's a factory 5-speed, it either had 2.73s or 3.08s.

I find it curious to hear people refer to "SN95 Suspension". Yes, the SN95 has disc brakes all around and 5-lug, but the meat of the suspension is nigh identical. I definitely recommend upgrading to 5-lug (5x4.5 is WAY easier to find cheap wheels for than 4x4.25... why oh why didn't Ford use 4x4.5 like any reasonable 4-lug?!?), but if you want actual suspension improvements, you're looking to the aftermarket.

The big three things that you're going to want to address are the lateral location of the rear axle (it floats 2" back and forth with the craptastic stock 4-link), chassis stiffness, and the front geometry.

For chassis stiffness, the quickest/easiest way is a set of full length, weld-in subframe connectors. I recommend either Maximum Motorsports or Steedas if you're not the type to make your own. This is the #1 first upgrade I recommend for any new-to-you fox-chassis Mustang, and it's a noticable improvement for everything from acceleration to handling to ride quality.

For the rear axle, you have three main options. You can replace the upper control arms with units that have spherical bushings. Due to the way the axle articulates, you do NOT want poly bushings in the UCAs; they just tear up the chassis-side mounts (aka torque boxes). This is the cheapest route, but you get not other geometry improvements. The other two options are adding a panhard bar or adding a watt's link. I'll assume that I don't need to go into the pros/cons between those for this crowd. The one thing I will add here is that if you add either PhB or WL, you can do what's referred to as a "Poor Man's 3-Link" (PM3L), where you then remove the driver's side UCA. This frees up a lot of bind in the rear end, however it changes the height of the rear roll center, so you will loose rear roll stiffness until you put stiffer springs in. Maximum Motorsports sells springs (for their torque arm setups) that are ~150% stiffer than normal for this very purpose.

For the front, the cheapest way to address the geometry is a set of good Caster-Camber plates. The stock front end does not allow much/any caster/camber adjustment, and just the addition of a few degrees of caster over stock does worlds of improvements to front grip.

ReverendDexter wrote: ... For the rear axle, you have three main options. You can replace the upper control arms with units that have spherical bushings. Due to the way the axle articulates, you do NOT want poly bushings in the UCAs; they just tear up the chassis-side mounts (aka torque boxes). This is the cheapest route, but you get not other geometry improvements. The other two options are adding a panhard bar or adding a watt's link. I'll assume that I don't need to go into the pros/cons between those for this crowd. The one thing I will add here is that if you add either PhB or WL, you can do what's referred to as a "Poor Man's 3-Link" (PM3L), where you then remove the driver's side UCA. This frees up a lot of bind in the rear end, however it changes the height of the rear roll center, so you will loose rear roll stiffness until you put stiffer springs in. Maximum Motorsports sells springs (for their torque arm setups) that are ~150% stiffer than normal for this very purpose.

A PM3L with a Panhard sounds like a nice solution with spherical bearings in the UCA. What's a decent source for one and what's this do as it moves through it's arc vs. the Panhard's? I'm sure it eventually binds but how much 'free' movement does it have when the car is sitting flat? Would you bother with LCA's like the MM parts for a basic street car if you did a Panhard & PM3L swap?

Javelin wrote: I'd wrap the thing in plastic and stick in the garage for another 10 years. Those cars will be *bank* very, very soon. When's the last time you even saw a stock 5.0 notch? But yes, those tires are too small. The stock size was a 215 or 225 depending on year, and the wheelwells fit 245's up front and 275's out back.

If I had an unmolested Fox and a place to store it I would do this!

I was just thinking about this the other day; first gen Mustangs were collectors and classics 30 odd years after they were made, '83 Foxes are 30 years old...

In reply to pres589:

No one I'm aware of sells just one UCA, though I'd be willing to bet any of the US manufacturers of such things (I'm thinking like BMR or Team Z) would sell you just a single if you called them up and explained what you're doing.

I can't really answer your question regarding the amount of "free" movement the car has before bind; I did run a PM3L for the couple months that I couldn't afford the torque arm with MM LCAs and stock springs, and that was VERY soft in the rear. I had also removed the quad-shocks at that time which may have contributed to my caddy-like ride quality.

I would run aftermarket LCAs with that setup, the stamped steel stock control arms combined with the large rubber bushings just have a lot of slop to them; what I recommend is an LCA that has a spherical bushing on one end and a poly on the other; that gives you the NVH damping of the poly without the bind (at least not through normal articulation).

If this is going to be a long-term solution, I would also recommend reinforcing the torque box on the passenger side.

rustysteel wrote: Plus I hate doing heater core's.

and you're not going to like it any more after performing this one. Prepare, emotionally, for a dashboardectomy.

Clem

ClemSparks wrote:

rustysteel wrote: Plus I hate doing heater core's.

and you're not going to like it any more after performing this one. Prepare, emotionally, for a dashboardectomy. Clem

No greater truth ever written on this board

In reply to ReverendDexter:

3.27 "Option" from Mustang Parts Vendors.

ClemSparks wrote:

rustysteel wrote: Plus I hate doing heater core's.

and you're not going to like it any more after performing this one. Prepare, emotionally, for a dashboardectomy. Clem

I've done two. The third I apologized profusely as I dropped it off with my mechanic.

If you're putting sticky tires on it, for berkeleys sake get subframe connectors ASAP.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/86-mustang-challenger-build/41304/page1/

They are a fun build

Bolt on parts don't

glueguy wrote:

ClemSparks wrote:

rustysteel wrote: Plus I hate doing heater core's.

and you're not going to like it any more after performing this one. Prepare, emotionally, for a dashboardectomy. Clem

No greater truth ever written on this board

That said...it's totally worth it!

Good score!

Can young doctors with bad handwriting attach canoes to their fox Body Mustangs? Wow, cool!

Back when Corner-Carvers was mostly Mustang folks, one of the members put together this guide to making a Fox Body handle. It's a bit dated at this point, and it only seems to exist in the Wayback Machine, but there are still some good tips: http://web.archive.org/web/20080525132834/http://www.protoworks.com/cgi-bin/C-C_Wiki.pl?PlasticSpoon

Tom_Spangler wrote: Back when Corner-Carvers was mostly Mustang folks, one of the members put together this guide to making a Fox Body handle. It's a bit dated at this point, and it only seems to exist in the Wayback Machine, but there are still some good tips: http://web.archive.org/web/20080525132834/http://www.protoworks.com/cgi-bin/C-C_Wiki.pl?PlasticSpoon

Thanks for the link and all the information everyone has provided. I was going to wait until it was warmer to get the car but I need to get started right now. Back in the day when I started autocrossing I used my '82 Trans Am and it was great but always wondered about those LX 5.0. Now it's time to find out...

http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm

I found this link so I thought I post it here. Some good basic info on the Fox chassis.

ReverendDexter wrote:

ClemSparks wrote:

rustysteel wrote: Plus I hate doing heater core's.

and you're not going to like it any more after performing this one. Prepare, emotionally, for a dashboardectomy. Clem

I've done two. The third I apologized profusely as I dropped it off with my mechanic.

They suck, but there are worse vehicles out there.... I know I have done a few.

Ranger50 wrote:

ReverendDexter wrote:

ClemSparks wrote:

rustysteel wrote: Plus I hate doing heater core's.

and you're not going to like it any more after performing this one. Prepare, emotionally, for a dashboardectomy. Clem

I've done two. The third I apologized profusely as I dropped it off with my mechanic.

They suck, but there are worse vehicles out there.... I know I have done a few.

None of you has apparently done the heater core in a fox-chassis Thunderbird. All the hate of a Mustang with 10x more wires!