FWD + Snow = Unimpressed

Ah, true enough, although it's been a long time since I've done motorsport in a FWD car so my practice has been limited to simply failing to sufficiently slow down for anything on the street.

We shall see, I've pre-reged my FWD car for the Detroit rallycross on 2/15. I've won there in RWD, I've won there in AWD, now to try for the triple crown

In reply to Knurled:

You say "failing" as if it were unintended...

Knurled wrote: I'm thinking of braking into a corner and knocking the tail out so that the car is aligned with the corner exit before you get there. With RWD on a slippery surface, it's difficult to get enough weight transfer without locking up the front brakes.

So, you appear to be saying that FWD driving techniques don't work as well on RWD cars.

In reply to kevlarcorolla:

I suggest you get over yourself.

Knurled wrote:

kevlarcorolla wrote: Honestly if you think you can't drive a fwd well then I suggest you don't really know how to drive period.

This. I don't consider myself to be a very good driver but FWD is easy-peasy in the snow. You just need to use that big round thing in front of you to vector your thrust and make sure you're not going so fast/applying so much throttle that you're blowing way to the outside of the grip curve.

Let me lay out my FWD snow driving technique for you. I hit gas, front tires spin resulting in loosing all the steering because the they are trying to do the job of the rear wheels. Font end washes into a curb or house or building or tree.

Nick_Comstock wrote: In reply to kevlarcorolla: I suggest you get over yourself.

Well I learned a long time ago to listen to someone that knows something I don't.

I've also learned not everyone has that ability.

As a result I will continue to learn new things and skills and some others will not.

Your description of fwd driving technique is pretty much what I'd already imagined,too be fair if you apply the same technique to rwd you hit those same curbs,houses and trees with the back of the car 1st so the result is the same bent car.

Not to likely you'll bother to watch but this is a vid from my civic,they will go around a corner on ice just fine with the right use of the controls.Steering wheel movement is minimal,nearly all changes made with the throttle.

http://youtu.be/_ycCKikFXyw

I'll stick with what I know I can do. I know my limits. I have zero desire to try to learn FWD dynamics. They do not interest me in the least. I couldn't care less which is faster, I know that I can safely get to and from any destination in a RWD car and I know from experience that I can't in a FWD car.

Trying to tell me about the merits of a FWD car is like trying to teach a person who has no interest at all in music to play piano. There is no point to it. I won't be driving one.

The ice racing looks like great fun.

In reply to Appleseed:

I'm very hungover

I never once tried to convince you or anyone else of the merits of fwd,just trying to point out that if you truly understand how to drive a car than it does not matter what wheels are driven.

My twincam swapped/supercharged e30 street car and race only miata both kinda show I'm not a one trick pony.

Ok you can go back to nursing your head now.

Man, we can argue about anything around here, can't we?

In reply to Tom_Spangler:

HEY! Those are fightin' words!

Wanna fight about it?

I took the wife to work today in unplowed snow and ice and tried to get the front wheel drive to kill me. Her car is a Fiat with Michelin snow tires. I got the esc to come on once as I lit up the wheels out of a gas station but otherwise the little bugger couldn't have been more predictable. Anytime it understeered I just had to take my foot off the gas and it settled back down. As had as I tried it was never anything but benign. After dropping her off I went into a nice icy lot at Bear Mountain park and was able to throw it around pretty hard without any trouble controlling it. It did spin nicely if I turned hard and yanked the handbrake but otherwise was as idiotproof a car as you could want.

In reply to Wally:

I don't understand this taking your foot of the gas thing you talked about???

I thought proper technique is never lift. For anything.

It sounded crazy to me to but sure enough it worked.

My RWD E36 M3 is probably one of the best cars I've ever driven in the snow. Only my CRX was better.

Tom_Spangler wrote: Man, we can argue about anything around here, can't we?

Not everything.

i also survived the snow and ice trip too work. while driving sideways intentionally for large portions of it. im pretty sure tires and driver ability means more as my co worker managed to spin his awd mountanier into the curb on one of the same roads I drove down. I have wranglers in good shape he has bald old Michelins. everyone has a preference so most of this argument is moot anyway. ill always prefer older rwd non electronic nannied vehicles!

this is going to sound strange to a lot of people.. but the best car I ever had in snow.. was a 1st generation Hyundai Excel. It's combination of FWD, skinny tyres, and light weight with all it's available weight over the front wheels made it near unstoppable

that is pretty much what we have been 'discussing'.

this may be true, but compared to everything that was out at the same time (and since) who would have expected such a cheap little car to outperform almost everything else out on the snowy streets. I remember passing 4x4s in 6 inches of snow in that tincan

In reply to mad_machine:

There was a fellow up here in Ontario that routinely won winter TSD's with quite difficult speeds in a early 80's Toyota Tercel on skinny winter tires. He routinely beat people in Subaru's and Audi's.

The combination of light weight and skinny tires is hard to beat. Easier to accelerate, brake and corner in a light car (with good tires).