GM boots coop students

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/19/gm-lets-go-103-kettering-university-co-op-student-workers/

Crazy.. As a former engineering coop who had a massively hard time finding a coop post right after 9/11, I feel for these kids..

Not surprising at all imo. The last time GM was in dire financial straits they owned the school. They cut the bottom 1/4 or bottom 1/3 of the student body and eventually let the school go private.

back in the day that GMI was a golden ticket.

Kettering called my son a month ago and my GM retiree father-in-law, his friends, and I got all hopped up on the opportunity.

My son is not interested in Kettering. But all the old school folks are.

I'm a fairly recent Kettering grad and having gone through the co-op program with them (not at GM) this seems extremely short sighted. Co-ops are very cheap labor...they don't ask for health benefits, 401k, vacation, etc. Give them enough money to pay for an apartment and some food and they're pretty much set. Typically they're very ambitious, hard working, educated with the latest/greatest info, and willing to do whatever you task them with. The company gets in on talent at the ground floor and develops them as they see fit, and if your interview process doesn't weed out the losers you can fire them at will similar to contract employees...there are plenty of other motivated college kids willing to fill the space! A co-op is fantastic value, nearly all of the work potential at a fraction of the cost of a typical employee. If you need to cut some fat, why not cut lose guys with 28 years in making $100k+/year plus benefits that are waiting for retirement to happen when there are motivated young'uns that will do the same job with the same or better quality for $25k/year and no benefits???

It just seems so short sighted, it's quite mind boggling to me.

Bryce

Did GM drop all of their co-op students or just the Kettering students? When I was at GMI/Kettering the GMI co-op students working at GM were getting their tuition covered, as well as getting an above average hourly rate. With tuition probably $15,000+/year at Kettering now, I can see GM cutting GMI students and replacing them with students from other schools that haven't traditionally gotten their tuition covered by GM. If you can pay a Lawrence Tech student $15/hour, or pay a GMI student $15/hour plus $15,000/year, which one are you going to hire? This is assuming, of course, that GM still paid tuition for GMI students up to today.

Bob

Schmidlap wrote: Did GM drop all of their co-op students or just the Kettering students? When I was at GMI/Kettering the GMI co-op students working at GM were getting their tuition covered, as well as getting an above average hourly rate. With tuition probably $15,000+/year at Kettering now, I can see GM cutting GMI students and replacing them with students from other schools that haven't traditionally gotten their tuition covered by GM. If you can pay a Lawrence Tech student $15/hour, or pay a GMI student $15/hour plus $15,000/year, which one are you going to hire? This is assuming, of course, that GM still paid tuition for GMI students up to today. Bob

The program in general, not just KU. Not ALL co-ops are being let go, some that are close to graduating or those in key groups are still staying at GM. Also, you can take away benefits like paid tuition, etc. without firing coops. Obviously that would be better for both parties involved, but they're not doing that. FWIW, GM hasn't paid tuition for at least a decade, and the school costs a lot more than $15k to boot...you're dating yourself! Tuition is $13k/per term ($26k/year) for incoming freshman.

GM covered housing and the pay was good up until recently, but there were other companies that were even better. Tacom, for example, paid tuition plus good pay. Anyway, who would really hire a fightin' Larry?

Bryce

I was on my first coop on september 2001. My 2nd and 3rd coop blocks were very hard to find. I had one friend who's pay checks started bouncing, another took a job as an environmental air sampling tech for a coop, and another was punted from AAM after the money just dried up(3 months in to a 6 month placement).

Tuition is $13k/per term ($26k/year) for incoming freshman

My tuition was about hmmmmm... $5-6K per year including books when I was trying to become an enginerd. And the University of Alberta is basically THE place to be in Canada for engineering. You guys are getting boned

Yeah, we're paying out the nose for education. Or rather adding to the loan/debt situation.

Nitroracer wrote: Yeah, we're paying out the nose for education. Or rather adding to the loan/debt situation.

I'm not saying that you guys aren't getting an edumacation though... you are, and hopefully its a damn good one!

And admittingly enough, most of our schooling is subsidized by the government, hence the lower prices.

Why does a chicken coop have 2 doors?

Because if it had 4, it'd be a chicken sedan.

Oh, you meant co-op.

Never mind.

Tuition's up to 13K a semester? I thought they were trying to cut tuition to attract more students.

GMI/Kettering is pretty expensive, but you get an incredible engineering education. The ironic part is that so many Kettering grads leave engineering very shortly after graduation. Of all the people I keep in touch with from GMI, only about 25% have stayed in engineering. Kettering was (and may still be) the largest feeder school to Harvard's MBA program, despite being such a small school. Alot of grads go to other grad schools for their MBAs (UofM, MIT's Leaders in Industry, etc), a lot become lawyers (patent law is especially popular), others end up in medicine. I know this is common with engineering programs, but it seems like it is far more common at Kettering.

Bob

Actually, I think the burnout rate for engineering students nationally is around 65-75%. Its just that at other schools you have an option to transfer to another major program other than engineering in your senior year when it finally dawns on you that you hate it (like I did), but at Kettering its pretty much Engineering and Engineering Lite (management, CS , etc). A lot of people get moved by their company out of engineering and into management as well.

Nashco wrote: ..... A co-op is fantastic value, nearly all of the work potential at a fraction of the cost of a typical employee. If you need to cut some fat, why not cut lose guys with 28 years in making $100k+/year plus benefits that are waiting for retirement to happen when there are motivated young'uns that will do the same job with the same or better quality for $25k/year and no benefits??? It just seems so short sighted, it's quite mind boggling to me. Bryce

Co-ops are great value but if you really think they are as useful as an experienced engineer (of advanced age) you need to go back to texting your friends. I would rather have the guy who wrote the ASME code then a guy who read the ASME code sorting out my pressure vessel problems and calc notes are only a small part of an engineering job. But I agree wholeheartedly on the co-ops ability to work with new technology is a bonus for the folks who are still happy with their slide rules. We use ABACUS almost everyday (but it doesneed a lot of computing power).

My son lost his co-op at Club Car (did not see them on the bailout list) last year - life is just not fair sometimes. Now he is gaining valuable insight on people skills while working at Golden Corral and going to school....

I agree with Varkwso. While some co-ops are great and highly useful. The last couple I managed were absolutely worthless. HR should be killed for bringing in these retards who have this entitled air about them.. One co-op we had refused to do work and we could fire him because it was against corporate policy. If I ever get a co-op again, I'll make sure I choose them and not be given them...

Varkwso wrote: Co-ops are great value but if you really think they are as useful as an experienced engineer (of advanced age) you need to go back to texting your friends.

Like I said, the success of co-ops in the workplace relies on hiring the good ones (just the same as any employee in any workplace). Getting a math geek who doesn't know anything about reality for an engineering co-op is just as useless as importing some guy from India, China, Korea, etc. with the same (lack of?) skills. I'm speaking from my own experience, and I can say that there were some of my fellow co-ops that were useless and some of them that were way ahead of the curve...just like some of the "experienced" engineers I work with.

As a co-op, I was doing more technically challenging, advanced, and useful engineering than many of the "experienced" engineers I've worked with that have 20+ years in the business. Some of the older folks tend to get wrapped up in bureaucracy and process so much that they lose track of the fact that they're supposed to be making more than just a paycheck, they're supposed to be making stuff. Some of them are great, some of them aren't...just like co-ops. And if you don't agree with me, perhaps you should go back to writing memorandums to your coworkers.

Bryce

Nashco wrote: ..... Some of them are great, some of them aren't...just like co-ops. And if you don't agree with me, perhaps you should go back to writing memorandums to your coworkers. Bryce

Don't do memo's very often since we lost secretarys back in the '90's and I am way too busy holding meetings (since all of us are way dumber then one of us) to actually hit the print button myself....

Due to time/cost of getting a clearance we do not see co-ops in my line of work but we occasionally get new grads (normally PhDs here of late). Their abilities can be good and their work ethic does vary - no matter it takes a while for all of them to get up to "speed". The HR process makes it difficult to get rid of any low performer - no matter the age.