This guy didn't have anything to do with it, but GM's 'badge engineering' (the Saabaru, the Trollblazer etc) combined with the whole HUMMER thing showed me that GM had lost their way in marketing a helluva long time ago.
This guy didn't have anything to do with it, but GM's 'badge engineering' (the Saabaru, the Trollblazer etc) combined with the whole HUMMER thing showed me that GM had lost their way in marketing a helluva long time ago.
dculberson wrote:bravenrace wrote:https://lpo.energy.gov/?projects=ford-motor-company $5.9 billion in low cost subsidized loans from the Department of Energy.dculberson wrote:Source please.DILYSI Dave wrote: Ford lived without stealing from my wallet,My understanding is that this statement is not true. That is, if you consider borrowing or being given taxpayer money to be stealing from your wallet.
The Government gives out those kinds of loans all the time. It's not a bailout, which is what we were talking about.
bravenrace wrote:dculberson wrote:The Government gives out those kinds of loans all the time. It's not a bailout, which is what we were talking about.bravenrace wrote:https://lpo.energy.gov/?projects=ford-motor-company $5.9 billion in low cost subsidized loans from the Department of Energy.dculberson wrote:Source please.DILYSI Dave wrote: Ford lived without stealing from my wallet,My understanding is that this statement is not true. That is, if you consider borrowing or being given taxpayer money to be stealing from your wallet.
In reply to phaze1todd:
Technically, the Fed is NOT the government, so it's not our dollars.
Hmmmmm.
GM sold 51% of GMAC to Cerberus in 2006.
Fast forward to today and GM now only owns 9.9% of the common shares of what is now Ally.
I've worked for both Ford and GM. I'll keep driving GM regardless of sucky marketing and who they borrowed money from.
bravenrace wrote:dculberson wrote:The Government gives out those kinds of loans all the time. It's not a bailout, which is what we were talking about.bravenrace wrote:https://lpo.energy.gov/?projects=ford-motor-company $5.9 billion in low cost subsidized loans from the Department of Energy.dculberson wrote:Source please.DILYSI Dave wrote: Ford lived without stealing from my wallet,My understanding is that this statement is not true. That is, if you consider borrowing or being given taxpayer money to be stealing from your wallet.
So since it happens all the time it's okay but a once in a decade thing isn't okay. Gotcha.
dculberson wrote:bravenrace wrote:So since it happens all the time it's okay but a once in a decade thing isn't okay. Gotcha.dculberson wrote:The Government gives out those kinds of loans all the time. It's not a bailout, which is what we were talking about.bravenrace wrote:https://lpo.energy.gov/?projects=ford-motor-company $5.9 billion in low cost subsidized loans from the Department of Energy.dculberson wrote:Source please.DILYSI Dave wrote: Ford lived without stealing from my wallet,My understanding is that this statement is not true. That is, if you consider borrowing or being given taxpayer money to be stealing from your wallet.
Yes. Loans to investigate new technologies is good for everyone. Bailing out a company to prevent it from going bankrupt that goes bankrupt anyway isn't.
HD took the same loans ford did........that must mean they're as bad as gm too.......
I'll continue to buy the best vehicle for my price point and purpose, although after the Saturn fiasco with getting warranty work done on my redline, and being told by no less than 5 chevrolet dealers that they wouldn't do warranty work on Saturns, (EVEN AFTER I HAD THEM ON THE PHONE WITH CORPORATE).......they won't get my dime ever again....and honestly, can all DIAF.
Being burned by dealers granted, this pretty much means I don't give a berkeley as to their advertisements.....personally, I always thought the recent ones were better than they used to be. If I buy new again, it could be any make and manufacturer....except gm. None berkeleys are given about a bailout. I would however like my cut of dividends payouts though. 
Hmmm, IMO GMs biggest problem is it's lackluster designers. There's no way that the Volt should be a near twin to a car costing 1/2 as much. And besides the Vette and to a lesser extent the Camaro, I look at GMs lineup and see a bunch of fleet rental cars. Advertising's just an easy target. Not the real problem.
Marketing is key when you're trying foist a lackluster product on a reluctant audience. If you have a compelling product, it will sell itself. Ford is a marketing machine--they are in your face with slick marketing all of the time. From Mike Rowe to user-generated Focus ST street racing, their marketing has a flavor tailored to the product.
Subaru...most vanilla product lineup out there, but the marketing is targeted well.
Chevy has a quality product now. It's 90% of the way there, but it doesn't have that sparkle that makes people want to own it on its own merit, and so-so marketing is just a double whammy.
Chevy keeps chasing that last 10% to get great, and it isn't mechanical quality or dependability. They just don't have that little thing called 'it,' so marketing has to be 110% to move the units. Marketing is the also the cheapest and easiest knob to turn.
bravenrace wrote: Yes. Loans to investigate new technologies is good for everyone. Bailing out a company to prevent it from going bankrupt that goes bankrupt anyway isn't.
To be clear, I have nothing against the Ford loans. It just means they're not completely devoid of sucking at the gov't teat. They even asked for $9bn in bailout money but didn't like the strings that were attached.
I hate the idea of government bailouts, but lets be honest: A car purchase (especially a new car) is a huge personal investment. Personally, I'm going to buy whatever I want the most.
dculberson wrote: To be clear, I have nothing against the Ford loans. It just means they're not completely devoid of sucking at the gov't teat. They even asked for $9bn in bailout money but didn't like the strings that were attached.
Yes, and instead took the fed loans and a borrowed the rest from Ford Europe. I'm assuming that Holden, Vauxhall, and Opel are just funded and mostly owned by GM, and just not interconnected as such.....or those subsidiaries were worse off....idk.
Saab definitely helped sink GM though......damn scandanavians 
bravenrace wrote:dculberson wrote:Source please.DILYSI Dave wrote: Ford lived without stealing from my wallet,My understanding is that this statement is not true. That is, if you consider borrowing or being given taxpayer money to be stealing from your wallet.
Ford Credit got $15.9 Billion dollars in taxpayer aid.
bravenrace wrote:dculberson wrote:Yes. Loans to investigate new technologies is good for everyone. Bailing out a company to prevent it from going bankrupt that goes bankrupt anyway isn't.bravenrace wrote:So since it happens all the time it's okay but a once in a decade thing isn't okay. Gotcha.dculberson wrote:The Government gives out those kinds of loans all the time. It's not a bailout, which is what we were talking about.bravenrace wrote:https://lpo.energy.gov/?projects=ford-motor-company $5.9 billion in low cost subsidized loans from the Department of Energy.dculberson wrote:Source please.DILYSI Dave wrote: Ford lived without stealing from my wallet,My understanding is that this statement is not true. That is, if you consider borrowing or being given taxpayer money to be stealing from your wallet.
Don't mind me, I'm just trying to break the Internet.
Appleseed wrote:bravenrace wrote:Don't mind me, I'm just trying to break the Internet.dculberson wrote:Yes. Loans to investigate new technologies is good for everyone. Bailing out a company to prevent it from going bankrupt that goes bankrupt anyway isn't.bravenrace wrote:So since it happens all the time it's okay but a once in a decade thing isn't okay. Gotcha.dculberson wrote:The Government gives out those kinds of loans all the time. It's not a bailout, which is what we were talking about.bravenrace wrote:https://lpo.energy.gov/?projects=ford-motor-company $5.9 billion in low cost subsidized loans from the Department of Energy.dculberson wrote:Source please.DILYSI Dave wrote: Ford lived without stealing from my wallet,My understanding is that this statement is not true. That is, if you consider borrowing or being given taxpayer money to be stealing from your wallet.
Just type Google into Google.
Since the 80's I thought GM's marketing contract was handled by the inept cousin of some brass on the 14th floor.. it was that bad. Remember the commercial where the Chevy guy takes a baseball bat to the grill of a competitor, C'mon man.
I think they've improved by leaps and bounds since the restructuring, still a long way to go though. Print ads and commercials don't mean much at all to me, I believe they are tailored to the general dumb public... which I am not a member of. 
If GMs marketing department was like the one we have at Ceasars Entertainment... everything would be named "The Truck" "The Vette" "The Economy Car" "The Luxury Car" ... yes, marketing is THAT bad here
Yep. GM marketing is terrible. Their new cars are pretty nice looking and have stick shifts.
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