Go fast, or turn fast, that is the question.

I have a problem. I'm at sort of a crossroads with my DD/toy car and I need a little advice. First- the backstory.

I drive a Mazdaspeed3. Intake side is about as done as I really need it, as everything from the intake mani back is new good stuff. Exhaust side is.... incomplete, but I'm not concerned. Only thing that will really make any more power is a downpipe, and I don't want to do that to the stock turbo because the seals like to go on vacation. Catback is worthless on this car, so that's only for sound, and can be left of the table. What's interesting, is my last dyno on the car was 256/280@ 13psi. I realize that horsepower numbers on a given dyno are not relevant at all, BUT- same dyno, identically modified car (save the manifold) dyno'd 251/275 @ 16psi. Without going into a long winded diatribe as to WHY this happens, it's safe to say I'm leaving power on the table. From the research I've done, it appears that an upgrade to the upper fuel pump, and a custom tune, and possibly e85 (These cars have been showing BIG gains on the stuff, and the injectors that are in it are good for some ridiculous number..... I know stock they're only at like 50% of duty cycle, if that) and another 3-5 psi, and I've got 300whp, which is about what I'm looking for, and fairly close to the stock limits before the engine starts sneezing internal dust into my oil pan. Total cost? ~1200$ plus dyno time. HERE's where it gets tricky.

The other night I was doing some "testing" of some modifications I had made to the grip side of the car. Those are even LESS dramatic, as all it is is a set of Rota DPT wheels (17x9 +42 for the ones that car) that weigh in at approx 18lbs a piece, and a set of correspondingly silly Star Spec z1 (245/40/17) tires. Add to that, a set of Hotchkis sway bars (rear on full stiff) and you've got a recipe for fun. That is, until you run into a mildy suspended Miata, and the minute the road gets bendy, the Miata smokes you. Sure I've got near triple the horsepower (It's true, Miata is a friend of mine, and it was on the dyno for lols shortly after I ran) but I could not keep up with that silly little thing no matter how hard I tried. This angers me. So, in a fit of rage, we start researching suspension. Turns out K-Mac camber plates, Koni "yellows" Eibach pro-kit springs (matched to the Konis no less) AWR front and rear endlinks, and StreetUnit rear camber links will set me back.... 1800$. Cost me another 100$ for a sweet alignment/corner weighting, and I've got a monster. Now the initial cost seems to be higher with the suspension, but that's sort of a one and done proposition, the dyno time is going to eat my wallet alive. My original goal for the car was to have a semi-reliable (anything is more reliable than my former DSM) DD that handled better than my wifes' stock Cooper S. I'm close. Noise/suspension stiffness is not important to me, as I've learned to equate turning good as comfort, and loud as going fast. I can really only afford to do one of the above setups for the car this year, and then I'm looking at probably next year to get the other one done. The question is if you were me, and sad that a silly little NA chassis Miata with 200k on the clock outran you, what would you do?

I would buy a Miata.

lol

But seriously I would try to drop some weight out of the car before spending money. Lose 100lbs of crap and you'll be surprised what it does to the car.

Then I would buy the suspension setup.

I chased the Miata's for two years with arguably the best handling SRA car ever built (1st Gen RX-7), got tired of it and bought a Miata. Each car has strengths and weaknesses. Get used to seeing Miata taillights on twisty roads.

Just wait for rain.

Another note-stay away from turbo Miatas, twisty roads or not.

Buy a bigger hammer. Trade in the MS3 for an MS6. Still won't handle as well, but outright nasty AWD grip can make up for a lot of shortcomings.

But really? Either accept what it is for what it is, or buy what it isn't.

Drop some weight. Do an alignment. Wait on the suspension.

Now out of curiousity....what is your level of driving experience compared to the person in the miata? That plays as big of roll as these other things. If you are following his line, it may not be the same as what is optimal for you.

sachilles wrote: Drop some weight. Do an alignment. Wait on the suspension. Now out of curiousity....what is your level of driving experience compared to the person in the miata? That plays as big of roll as these other things. If you are following his line, it may not be the same as what is optimal for you.

Excellent question. The Miata driver is somewhat more experienced than I am, though I am no slouch when it comes to hammering out some corners. But even driving said Miata, it just blows my mind how well it handles. My only reservation to just buying an NA and calling it good, is the fact that I don't fit so well, and it'd be a new seat and custom brackets to get me into one.

I'd say find a Miata for the cost of the suspension mods...do a foam-ectomy and have fun.

selling your MS3 and buying a new seat with Custom brackets will probably be cheaper than dropping more money into a car that will never be as quick through the corners as a Miata.

If you can't beat them... join them

mad_machine wrote: selling your MS3 and buying a new seat with Custom brackets will probably be cheaper than dropping more money into a car that will never be as quick through the corners as a Miata. If you can't beat them... join them

I've been tempted more than once... trust me. I've got a fairly sizeable pile of money into modding the car... and it's still not where I want it to be. Problem is, I really LIKE the car. I think option C- buy a Miata may end up being the horse, since I've wanted one of the silly things since forever......

/me runs off to CL.

93celicaGT2 wrote: Buy a bigger hammer. Trade in the MS3 for an MS6. Still won't handle as well, but outright nasty AWD grip can make up for a lot of shortcomings. But really? Either accept what it is for what it is, or buy what it isn't.

It won't help him much against a miata, I know I own one of each..

I have even done a little to the speed6 (camber kit, sway bars, better tires) and even against my still stock miata I prefer the miata every time.

Resistance is futile you will be assimilated...

Capt Slow wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: Buy a bigger hammer. Trade in the MS3 for an MS6. Still won't handle as well, but outright nasty AWD grip can make up for a lot of shortcomings. But really? Either accept what it is for what it is, or buy what it isn't.

It won't help him much against a miata, I know I own one of each.. I have even done a little to the speed6 (camber kit, sway bars, better tires) and even against my still stock miata I prefer the miata every time. Resistance is futile you will be assimilated...

Oh sure, like i said, the Miata will still handle better, and if you're a sane driver, will likely be more rewarding and fun. If you're the ham-fisted type driver (as i am), the MS6 could be fun, and in terms of raw speed potential could potentially hang.

But the Miata would be better, for sure. Needs more boost, though.

Needs moar boost is a given. There's a reason I already have a spare turbo for the car that only has 40k on the clock... and that I'm banned from getting near the wifes' car.

I say suspension. :)