Grand National VS Super Coupe

Otto Maddox wrote: What else do you want? Maybe that Trans Am that came with the GN engine. That would be some improvement.

Except that it wasn't the same motor. The intake and heads wouldn't clear the sloping nose of the T/A, so the FWD 3.8L had to be used. I worked on a race team whose parent company did all the prototype work for that car. Got to drive a test mule in the summer of '88 in Farmington Hills, Mi. Surprised the hell out of a '86 Corvette owner pulling away from a stoplight. They also had a Pontiac Bonneville with a turbo on it, that led to the supercharged SSE-i Bonneville.

This is the easiest vs thread of all time. GN hands down.

slowpoke wrote: You are all not giving teh SC a chance or know little about them

I've worked on enough of both to form some sort of opinion.

But it handles like dog doody, brakes like dog doody, drives like dog doody (IT IS NOT A LUXURY VEHICLE BY ANY MEANS). Interior wise SC hands down..Youde have to be smoking some serious stuff if you though otherwise

The MN10 is a great interior if you're under 6' tall and don't mind the awful late 80s/early 90s Ford interior quality.

Engine wise the the stock SC motor is better as well. Power is instant, no lag, feels good.

The SCs DO have lag. It takes a little bit for the blower to charge up all that ducting to the intercooler. At least, every one I've driven had noticable lag from throttle motion to boost gauge motion, about a half-second or so.

Steel crank, better aluminum heads, beefy block.

I an not certain that the Ford's heads qualify as "better". Canted-valves are nice and all, but the Buick heads work PDG right out of the box.

So ultimately in stock form the SC...Drives wonderfully around town, on the highway, is a hell of allot more comfortable, brakes better..has no lag but instant power(and can be had in 5 speed) however...3/4 of a second slower stock for stock vs a GN. And that makes the GN so much better?

No, the fact that the GN is built on the Metric chassis and all of the scadloads of aftermarket support that entails, the much airier and more pleasant interior, the fact that there is no such thing as a "stock GN" when even moderate power increases are absurdly inexpensive without hurting reliability, the fact that the GN came with a really damn good automatic vs. the awful automatic (it's a Ford, they're all like that ) or the slightly less awful manual trans, which is an odd choice for a vehicle the size of a land yacht anyway, the fact that working on a GN does not require evolving three extra joints in your arms, the fact that you can find very clean GNs in practically every part of the country because they tended to be bought by people who treasured them as modern versions of the 60's musclecars, while anything MN10 tended to be treated as disposable appliances (and yes, this is important in 2012, because all you will be able to find are cars depending on the last 20 years of POs).

The only bad thing I can really say about the GN, besides how expensive it is to buy one, is that the power brake unit is moderately trouble-prone and shockingly expensive. Many GNs have been converted to vacuum brakes.

That, and there are a LOT of GN clones out there, so you may think you are buying a pedigreed GN but you're really just buying a Regal that somebody swapped the interior and drivetrain from. It's funny when the swapper forgets to remove the hood ornament.

Wow I created a VS thread that got someone to actually sign up on the forum for the sole purpose of defending the under dog.

In reply to Knurled: Fn10 is mark viii mn12 is thunderbird. Just for the record. I have built and worked on many of both (GN and SC).

You must not have worked on many SC's...Because once you do figure out the difficulties, and they exist, navigating around them is cake. And Im a big guy with big arms. The earlier cars more difficult due to the large ABS unit. Still can do a tuneup in 30 min if need be on a stock car. But crap you dont need to do one of those all that often

And I cant see how you think the GN interior is superior. Ergonomics just doesnt exist. The MN12 interior is flat out superior when compared to that of a GN. The 94-95 being far superior and the 89-93 being much better. But if you like cardboard like non supportive seats and cheesy plastic panels..Well GN all the. Maybe the two tone and the "6" symbol gets people going

And I do not know what SC's you have driven. There is no lag. Its instant power. Any stock sc dyno sheet will show you that. Ive owned a few and still do. Ive also owned in the past an 87 t type, and my GF actually owning at the time an 87 GN. Besides brake problems, cracked exhaust manifolds, blowing smoke, turbo lag and a myriad of things falling off in the interior..It was a fun car to drive. First drive in an 89 SC however I was hooked. It's just a well refined car.

And most GN's/t types I see nowadays, like most GM's from the era have major rust or are falling apart. I cant even begin to tell you the last time I saw a plain jane regal. Yes there are still some GN's out there that are in good shape but nothing like they were back in the day. And they are only in decent shape because liek you said teh owners thought they bought a car that would be worth $$$. But even those good ones dont go for much $$ anymore. Noone wants to pay big bucks for a 14 second car. Same goes for SC's. I see mint low mile ones going for some $$$ and they just dont sell. A GN was a modern muscle car at the time. The SC was a GT car. Different Market alltogether

The pros of a GN is definitely simplicity.Take a grandma car, throw a turbo in it and some suspension upgrades and there you go. Easy and cheap. The SC when new was built to handle, brake, ride nice...It was a complete package. Adjustable suspension, variable assist steering (A real sequential EEC for engine management) and a bunch of other stuff that while real cool on a new car....Some of which not so cool on an old car. Bottomline is a used SC's downfall is how well it was maintained. There is allot to keep up with. A great modern example (not comparison) is lets say a used cl600 benz. Its a great car that when new was well over 100,000....Now a twin turbocharged v12 cl600 can be had under $25,000 USED. Why? Once out of warranty and all those little gadgets start going...You're screwed

But the SC isnt a 100,000 plus car and parts for repair nowadays...are way affordable. And overall its a great car. Anything I thought my car was lacking..Well I upgraded. Its all out there..And not expensive.

In the end Ill never be convinced a GN is a better car. But I expect most will due to lack of knowledge or based on ignorance of the car itself. And driving a beat up 100,000 plus unmaintained example of either cars is not a good comparison. If I go stock for stock..SC.Modified..I still like my car:O)

In reply to rebelgtp: Only because I dont consider it an underdog..I consider it lack of knowledge of the car itself:O)

Show me a grand national that looks like this seriously guys if weight were that big of an issue thes cars wouldnt be running 10s and 11s beefed up. Grand nationals are just more well known than the Super Coupe. They are both great cars in my opinion but im Super Coupe hands down

Im going with GN on this one. I have had one pass me at the dragstrip with the front wheels 3 feet in the air. It was an earth-moving moment for me.

Of course I put a few in my car profile as well...No love No love I tell ya..I dont have one of the dash but its much different then the one posted above. And I learned my lesson on using non MLS gaskets..Had to throw that one in there...Thats the old twin screw powered motor..Anyway....I like em!

Another GN vote. Regal T-type Turbo basicly the same car with chrome trim and cheaper buy-in when new, harder to find now. the only GN downside for me is no factory stick shift and too expensive to get one now.

Yes

No

Pinch I think that car you posted is actually a clone (a very well done one) that is powered by a Duramax and is an absolute beast of a car.

EDIT: just checked that is a different car from the one I was thinking of.

Oh on a side note there is a T Type in Portland right now for $1000. Turbo is missing, has a hole in the roof and no title damn it. If not for that last bit I would be going down to get it.

GN. Or even a clone. One of the only automatic cars I would willingly own.

Somebody should make a GN clone for the challenge. Old Regals should be practically free. Stock up on black rattle can paint and find you a cheap V8.

Otto Maddox wrote: Somebody should make a GN clone for the challenge. Old Regals should be practically free. Stock up on black rattle can paint and find you a cheap V8.

I was actually looking for a G-body for the Challenge but I ended with a Yugo...

Otto Maddox wrote: Somebody should make a GN clone for the challenge. Old Regals should be practically free. Stock up on black rattle can paint and find you a cheap V8.

well I am trying to work a deal on a T Type though title issues may make it a no go.

Oh and if I make it out to the challenge it will more than likely be in a G Body. Either one of my Cutlasses or a Regal/GN replica if I can locate one.

Grand National no questions asked.

& if we're gonna keep doing VS thread, why not get some poll action in them?

heres my sc guess us sc guys aint gona prove you gn guys wrong..

heres some pics but there no hi res... btw these are street legal sc's

snapped crank