GRM reviews the Volt

Why didn't they use a Diesel generator?! The highway rating of 37mpg is pretty weak, and 42mpg actual isn't all the fantastic either. My Mk6 TDI will do 46mpg all day long at 70mph with the a/c on, or 44mpg cruising at 75mph. A gas-electric or diesel-electric should be pretty freaking fuel efficient because you can design the engine to run at a fixed speed. I'm surprised they couldn't eek out more on the highway. The boost in engine efficiency should be greater than the loss from an extra energy conversion.

Tom Heath wrote: There are a lot of vehicles that qualify for a tax credit; clean diesels, hybrids of all sorts, even natural gas powered cars. Shouldering that argument on the Volt doesn't make sense to me.

The tax credit for diesels ended last year and was a maximum of $850 for 2010. Back in 2009 the credit was up to $1800 depending upon the make and model. I didn't agree with tax credits for diesels either. In true capitalism, if the technology was mature and provided advantages, then enough people would be interested to buy them without a tax credit.

I'd like to test drive one to see what the power feels like. I'd hope the Volt doesn't feel completely gutless like the Prius since they can get max torque from 0rpm with electric motors. I love diesel torque, electric might be fun (read Tesla).

carguy123 wrote: 3) BUT is this THE technology of the future? And should it be subsidized?

I think the question would better asked "Should it be subsidized more than a traditional automobile?" The amount of money we spend on roads vs. other transportation infrastructure has clearly anointed the car as the preferred, and often exclusive, means of transportation for most people in the US. Subsidies will exist in some form or another anywhere infrastructure exists.

I think almost anything we can do to diversify our energy usage is a likely a good thing. If a homeowner can put up a wind generator or solar system and use it to power this type of vehicle, how excellent. It also leaves more gasoline, at somewhat more reasonable prices, for folks who still want to drive more traditional cars. It also leaves us with petroleum for things like plastic, which is also useful.

I like the concept of the Volt.

I don't love the execution, and I hate the price, but the concept is sound. If this volley gets the same concept into care with a better execution and price, then I become interested.

Tom Heath wrote: There are a lot of vehicles that qualify for a tax credit; clean diesels, hybrids of all sorts, even natural gas powered cars. Shouldering that argument on the Volt doesn't make sense to me.

true. i didn't mean to put it all on the Volt. i'm talking about EV's and hybrids in general.

I want to see one on an autocross course

I really want to autocross an electric car one day. Instant-torque appeals to me!

As for the Volt, it would actually make a lot of sense for my wife. She drives ~5 miles each way to work, and rarely takes long trips alone (so we'd have the Mazda5 for those). She could theoretically never buy gas for it.

That said, the Leaf meets her commute just as well and is cheaper. So does a scooter.

No new car makes financial sense, so it doesn't matter for us.

Epic sneeze JG had on that video at ~2:50!

Sneezes aside, I saw the volt in real life and it is an attractive car. While I am not a GM fan by any stretch, I do like this car. However, JG's video got me thinking. If the car is electric only for most a commute, the thing that worries me is what others have not mentioned...the gas engine. If it does not engage the engine for a while, you are essentially talking about gas that is sitting in the tank for a while and oil not circulating in the engine. A can of gas stabilizer will help the former, but we all know the damage that can be done to an engine that sits around and I am now wondering if this may shorten the lifespan of the gas engine or cause some mechanical difficulties.

sanman wrote: Epic sneeze JG had on that video at ~2:50!

Wasn't it? It sounded like it caused some interesting effects when it overpowered the mic. It was almost like he sneezed through a distortion pedal...

If the car is electric only for most a commute, the thing that worries me is what others have not mentioned...the gas engine. If it does not engage the engine for a while, you are essentially talking about gas that is sitting in the tank for a while and oil not circulating in the engine.

I couldn't find a convenient way to post a link, since it's apparently not directly on the page, but if you google for your concern, you'll find numerous references (including the main volt page) to the volt automatically running the engine every so often (at least every 60 days?) to cycle gas through. When I skimmed, they didn't mention pumping oil around and so forth, but I wouldn't be surprised if that contributed to the decision to do such a thing.

If it weren't for the price I'd really consider one to drive back and forth to work in and use my cheap TVA power to recharge it at night.

sanman wrote: Epic sneeze JG had on that video at ~2:50! Sneezes aside, I saw the volt in real life and it is an attractive car. While I am not a GM fan by any stretch, I do like this car. However, JG's video got me thinking. If the car is electric only for most a commute, the thing that worries me is what others have not mentioned...the gas engine. If it does not engage the engine for a while, you are essentially talking about gas that is sitting in the tank for a while and oil not circulating in the engine. A can of gas stabilizer will help the former, but we all know the damage that can be done to an engine that sits around and I am now wondering if this may shorten the lifespan of the gas engine or cause some mechanical difficulties.

Chevy is way ahead of you. The gas engine is programmed to come on every few weeks or so and warm the fluids to proper operating temps. It prevents seals from drying out, prevents gas from getting stale, and all of the other stuff associated with prolonged non-use. I believe one of the benchmarks is for the car to use at least a tank (8 gallons) of fuel per year.

jg

sanman wrote: Epic sneeze JG had on that video at ~2:50!

And thanks. The rest of that take was good, so there was no way I was going to start over at that point. The audio signal is basically off the charts. It just turns from a waveform into a solid black smear, proving that my sneezes are not only loud, but frequency-rich. I'm like the Iggy Pop of sneezing.

jg

In regards to diesel, I'm guessing it's easier to stick to gasoline than to try and make a diesel pass Cali's restrictive smog regulations.

I like the technology behind the Volt. I drive 60 miles a day to and from work, plus extra if I have to run an errand. I could theoretically make 66% of my driving on battery-only and maybe even more if I can convince my workplace to install electric car battery chargers or at least let me plug into an external outlet. The Volt is too expensive for me and I really need a hatchback, though I do understand that a car with a drivetrain layout that has never been produced before will be expensive at first. Here's hoping it's successful enough for Chevy to make a smaller, lighter, more entertain hatchback Volt!

RexSeven wrote: Here's hoping it's successful enough for Chevy to make a smaller, lighter, more entertain hatchback Volt!

It is a hatchback, and one with a pretty deep wayback as well. The rear seats are buckets, as the battery array precludes a bench in the back, but they're darn comfortable. When folded flat, the rear cargo area is darn near as big as the MS3's, just without the additional space afforded by the taller rear of the 3. It's darn useful, though.

And if it were about $10k cheaper, there may be a lightly used Mazdaspeed3 for sale right now.

jg

JG Pasterjak wrote: I'm like the Iggy Pop of sneezing.

There's a t-shirt.

JG Pasterjak wrote: And if it were about $10k cheaper, there may be a lightly used Mazdaspeed3 for sale right now. jg

$10k cheaper before or AFTER tax credits? In many cases, the buyer will pay about $30-33k with current incentives. If you mean $10k cheaper than that...well, no E36 M3, we'd all like that, but no way we're going to get all that technology for less than the price of a base Malibu. In reality, the current price for a Volt is only a few grand more than the Camry hybrid yet it's a WAY better value, IMO. This is including incentives, of course.

Food for thought. You all know how I feel about hybrids. Bees knees and all that. I'm really looking forward to seeing more Volt-y vehicles, I think they're a great fit for the average commuter. I'm also excited to see EV technology flying forward, I dream of a day when just about any type of car can be had in an EV flavor and certainly in a hybrid flavor. Perhaps dream is the wrong word, I try to do my part to make it happen in reality too.

Bryce

DILYSI Dave wrote: I like the concept of the Volt. I don't love the execution, and I hate the price, but the concept is sound. If this volley gets the same concept into care with a better execution and price, then I become interested.

This.

I don't care much for it myself, but I'm not going to knock it for those that do.

Now that the Volt is real world maybe it will quell disputes over this:

JG Pasterjak wrote:

sanman wrote: Epic sneeze JG had on that video at ~2:50! Sneezes aside, I saw the volt in real life and it is an attractive car. While I am not a GM fan by any stretch, I do like this car. However, JG's video got me thinking. If the car is electric only for most a commute, the thing that worries me is what others have not mentioned...the gas engine. If it does not engage the engine for a while, you are essentially talking about gas that is sitting in the tank for a while and oil not circulating in the engine. A can of gas stabilizer will help the former, but we all know the damage that can be done to an engine that sits around and I am now wondering if this may shorten the lifespan of the gas engine or cause some mechanical difficulties.

Chevy is way ahead of you. The gas engine is programmed to come on every few weeks or so and warm the fluids to proper operating temps. It prevents seals from drying out, prevents gas from getting stale, and all of the other stuff associated with prolonged non-use. I believe one of the benchmarks is for the car to use at least a tank (8 gallons) of fuel per year. jg

that's all well and good until a few families die from carbon monoxide from the car starting up in the middle of the night while parked in a closed garage..

one thing i need to know is how are they going to collect road taxes on cars like this? since they don't use (much) gasoline in some instances, the owners won't be paying very much in the way of gasoline taxes. seeing how the government has gone after people for making their own biodiesel, i think they might try to go after electric cars somehow- or maybe even go to a mileage based tax on all cars, which gets rid of some of the benefit of getting a car like this..

fasted58 wrote: Now that the Volt is real world maybe it will quell disputes over this:

Whatever that is, looks fantastic. Aero FTW.

The Volt is nice, too, big leap forward in real-world usability of hybrid technology and all that. But I'm really just posting here to say how much I enjoyed JG's video. Informative and funny!

JG Pasterjak wrote:

sanman wrote: Epic sneeze JG had on that video at ~2:50!

And thanks. The rest of that take was good, so there was no way I was going to start over at that point. The audio signal is basically off the charts. It just turns from a waveform into a solid black smear, proving that my sneezes are not only loud, but frequency-rich. I'm like the Iggy Pop of sneezing. jg

Why not just cut that section out? Granted, using two cameras would have made that a LOT easier.

you guys ever need a video guy on your crew...

Luke wrote:

fasted58 wrote: Now that the Volt is real world maybe it will quell disputes over this:

Whatever that is, looks fantastic. Aero FTW. The Volt is nice, too, big leap forward in real-world usability of hybrid technology and all that. But I'm really just posting here to say how much I enjoyed JG's video. Informative and funny!

That's GM's EV-1, and the dispute was 'Who Killed The Electric Car'

While I still have an irrational hatred for hybrids, I don't hate the Volt as much as I used to.

Sounds like a big step forward in hybrid technology, hopefully enough people buy in to reduce the cost of the vehicles in the future.

Unfortunately I still hate car payments more than anything. I'll stick with my 30 year-old, 30mpg crapcan.

Shawn

forzav12 wrote: Good review. The Volt really is an option for those looking to eliminate the need for petrol to complete their daily commutes,while allowing for unimpeded longer trips. Incredible tech for a real world driver. Also, please spare me the, "my 500 dollar crapcan gets better mileage and it will take a Volt owner one million miles of driving to come out ahead" comments. Apples to oranges, people. Considering the various incentives(federal.state and local-depending where you live), the price really isn't that bad. I'm considering the lease option as it has pretty favorable terms,incudes a great warranty and I can return the car in a few years and sample an even more efficient vehicle at that time. Good job, GM.

While I agree the $500 crap can comparisons are not valid, it really pisses me off that the financial considerations justify themselves by using my tax dollars.

"Considering the various incentives..." is also an invalid comparison. GM's inability to build the car in a manner that enabled it to compete in the real world without continued financial bailout is shameful.

I was thoroughly excited to see the car being developed, and completely disappointed when I saw the pricetag. I rule it out on that issue alone.

SVreX wrote: using my tax dollars.

So do you use oil? Education? Roads? Everything is subsidized. I am not saying that is good (obviously to many, my politics would dictate the opposite) but the point is that even the Volts direct alternatives (gas powered cars) are subsidized, so you can't take that out on the Volt without taking it out on every other car out there.

Anyone know when/if/and what Ford is doing about hybrids? All I see is the Escape and Fusion, while Chevy really seems to be kicking it up with trucks, SUV's cars, etc. Across the entire line. I'd really like to see the Flex with a volt-ish drivetrain that gets 35 combined. It's that 6th seat argument that the Mazda5 makes.