GRM Subaru Wagon Motor Went boom

I'll give it to you for a ridiculous discount of what is owed :).

Nathan JansenvanDoorn wrote: Is it me, or do I read about spun rod bearings on the Subaru turbo cars more than any other in recent memory?

you do see it a lot now. coincidentally, many of these cars are also getting cheap and snapped up by 2nd or 3rd owners who either may not know the car's history, or are younger buyers who flog them to death not knowing the proper care. its a situation ripe for more and more failures in the hands of vocal owners.

2 problem areas pop up with these things: subaru bottom ends are built notoriously tight and the skinnier bearing surfaces favor synth oils with good HTHS (high temp, high shear) qualities when the turbo cars are used aggressively. many people dump energy conserving oils in there and its "good enough", or run extended oil change intervals despite the conservative OEM recommendations. second, Subaru hired a mildly retarded chimp to program the factory engine tune. they run too lean in stock form (for the sake of MPG's and emissions, most likely) and beat up the bearings and rings with detonation.

i wouldn't say they're fragile engines, more just intolerant of certain factors. put good oil and a good tune in them and they'll last longer.

good luck GRM! don't give up on it....

chandlerGTi wrote:

Duke wrote:

turboswede wrote: Mobil 1 changed their formula a while back (when they were bought up), now they are a hydro-cracked oil. Not a full synthetic. They still charge full synthetic prices of course, but a full synthetic they are not. Instead of changing the label of their product and charge less, they helped change the definition of a full sythentic to allow their stuff to be labeled as a synthetic.

That was actually Castrol that got the definition of "synthetic" changed so they could use fake synthetics. What do Subarus like? Inquiring minds want to know.

Not many "full synthetic" oils really are, that just means they started from a "better" base. Only amsoil and Lucas type manufacturers are really offering full synthetic.

I seem to recall some of the Mobil1 weights are still actually full synthetic, no energy to confirm, though.

mazdeuce wrote: So the Camry went boom and the WRX went boom and the 911 lost a head stud that led to a rebuild. Holy cats, I'm not sure I want to hang out with them anymore.

Is racecar...

But I will still hang out here...

Ojala wrote: In reply to DirtyBird222: Yes, you made a terrible choice and now you need to sell it to me at a ridiculous discount....

Indeed. Can't be worth more than Challenge money...

noddaz wrote: Is racecar...

Yes, is the truth. Just makes me think of my own car's mortality. Makes me sad.

I think the mobil 1 thing is hooey. Always look at the oil pickup, they crack causing oil starvation. Keep the oil full or slightly over full. Going with an improved oil pick up and/or a better pan will save you grief.

I ran Shell Rotella 5w40 Synthetic diesel oil in my 2002 after my aforementioned Mobil 1 consumption issue. I never had an issue with it. Great stuff! In my 2009, I ran whatever synthetic was on sale, except for Mobil 1, because of the bad experience I had with my 2002. No consumption issues with that car.

Truth is, as others have said, these motors are finicky and need an oil that doesn't thin out under high temp/high shear situations. The oiling systems on the regular WRX 2.0L motors aren't great. It's a common upgrade to switch to the STI oil pump on these.

Another fluid to be careful about is what you run in your transmission. The early 5-speed has a bad reputation for being weak, but if you use the right fluid (and know how to drive, LOL) then they should last a long time. Again, avoid Mobil 1 products in here. They have a different additive package than most gear oils, and for some reason, it makes the synchros bind up on the early 5-speeds. I had this issue with mine, and I swapped it out for Redline fluids, which made it shift fine again. Some people even use a "cocktail" of different fluids. It usually consisted of a synthetic gear oil with a quart of Syncromesh fluid mixed in. I also tried this in there and found that it had great results.

I don't want GRM to give up either. Aspen White bugeye wagons are my favorite 02-07 WRX's. Also, keep in mind that the motor in their car had high miles.

HIgh miles and unknown past usage. Could have had the damage largely done prior to their ownership. Oil starvation is the bigger issue than the oil used. Autocross and track stuff causes the oil to starve if it isn't full. The pan setup on the early 2.0 just isn't the best.

sachilles wrote: HIgh miles and unknown past usage. Could have had the damage largely done prior to their ownership. Oil starvation is the bigger issue than the oil used. Autocross and track stuff causes the oil to starve if it isn't full. The pan setup on the early 2.0 just isn't the best.

I agree with everything you said here.

The only mystery to me was why my own car would drink certain types of oil and not others. My car had around 25,000 miles on it when this happened. It never did it again after I switched to another brand. Weird, right?

Good point on the oil pan, too. I know that there are a few companies that make aftermarket pans for this reason.

The car's history included one autocross. It was not driven aggressively.

While this is a thread promoted by a company that makes oil pans, they show the differences between the oem pans and why the new oil pans are a better than the 02 wrx oil pan. oil pan comparison

In reply to sachilles:

I do have to say that Killer B really does make the best Subaru oil pan and pickup that your money can buy. Though Moroso and others are pretty good as well.

The pan and pickup can help, but polishing the oil returns and "blueprinting" the pump needs to be done well. From there you are looking at a dry sump...

In my opinion a high rpm Subaru engine needs high angle drilled crank shaft oil galleys(like some do for domestic v8s) instead of the stock cross drilled oil galleys. And the bearings are thin for their diameter, and etc. etc. etc.

EDIT: AND I wont even get into the cheesy single knock sensor that Subaru puts on these engines which has a large part in failing to detect the knock that often contributes to wrecking the bearings on these engines.

Chris

Time for a lycoming engine swap into a wrx?

Woody wrote: The car's history included one autocross. It was not driven aggressively.

That doesn't mean it wasn't badly driven. When I sold my Suby, I had to warn the kid who bought it three times during the test drive, not to rev the engine while it was still cold. I would be amazed if the original engine is still in that car. Stupidity can wreck an engine (any engine) pretty fast.

fanfoy wrote:

Woody wrote: The car's history included one autocross. It was not driven aggressively.

That doesn't mean it wasn't badly driven. When I sold my Suby, I had to warn the kid who bought it three times during the test drive, not to rev the engine while it was still cold. I would be amazed if the original engine is still in that car. Stupidity can wreck an engine (any engine) pretty fast.

Woody was the driver... I am fairly certain he knows EXACTLY how it was driven...

oh....I guess he would

Time to swap a proper motor into the WRX: 4g63t.

[Flame suit on!]

pinchvalve wrote: Sounds like a series of articles on rebuilding and improving the WRX motor into an STi killer.

Or if it's like the rest of the series, a caption that says "We took it to so and so to have the motor rebuilt."

DILYSI Dave wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: Sounds like a series of articles on rebuilding and improving the WRX motor into an STi killer.

Or if it's like the rest of the series, a caption that says "We took it to so and so to have the motor rebuilt."

oooooo

Them's fightin' werds...

DILYSI Dave wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: Sounds like a series of articles on rebuilding and improving the WRX motor into an STi killer.

Or if it's like the rest of the series, a caption that says "We took it to so and so to have the motor rebuilt."

I understand your complaints; we'll be moving away from that.

The WRX was an unplanned arrival (we were going to set it aside as a donor) that came as Tim, Jere, and I were also building a Mini, a Mercedes, a Miata, a Fiesta, redoing a TR3, finishing a Corvair, fixing 2 old BMWs, and working the hardest on the magazine itself that we ever have. Not to mention that I was taking 16 credit hours (and will be taking 18 this semester).

Bottom line- something had to give and it wasn't going to be my grades (I tried that with the Spitfire, not a good idea FWIW). So we had some of the more labor intensive (but less interesting) stuff done by our local shop.

As far as the performance stuff, I was there every step of the way under the car photographing, helping, and taking notes. The stories will be written with much more detail than the updates.

Ojala wrote: AND I wont even get into the cheesy single knock sensor that Subaru puts on these engines which has a large part in failing to detect the knock that often contributes to wrecking the bearings on these engines. Chris

Uh oh... I got the EJ22-swapped Beetle running () the other day, and pulled codes, and knock sensor was one of them... I know its a high mileage engine...

Armitage wrote: Time to swap a proper motor into the WRX: LSx [Flame suit on!]

FTFY.

In reply to Bobzilla:

LS motors liquify the stock WRX rear end. True story.

@ Tom - Good to hear.