David S. Wallens wrote:JG Pasterjak wrote: I may have to get an emergency Miata just in case. jgI keep one tucked away in the corner of the garage just in case.
Wait, don't we all? 
David S. Wallens wrote:JG Pasterjak wrote: I may have to get an emergency Miata just in case. jgI keep one tucked away in the corner of the garage just in case.
Wait, don't we all?
David S. Wallens wrote:JG Pasterjak wrote: I may have to get an emergency Miata just in case. jgI keep one tucked away in the corner of the garage just in case.
Holy carp! I just got a GREAT theme idea for a miata 
ptmeyer84 wrote:mazdeuce wrote: A brief search makes it look like nobody has taken a volt to Targa Newfoundland. I would quite enjoy a series of articles about prepping and driving a volt in something like that. Drive to Newfoundland, race, drive back, record mileage. Just putting it out there........The most reasonable idea yet. I think a road trip is in order!
Targa actually has a hybrid class: Group 9. There's also a "Next Generation Challenge" that appears to have been written to give MINI something to win and Fiat something to dream about, but the rules don't say anything about hybrid power, only maximum displacement of 1.6 liters with no multipliers. Hmm.
If you need an experienced driver/navigator/crew, let me know
Keith wrote:ptmeyer84 wrote:Targa actually has a hybrid class: Group 9. There's also a "Next Generation Challenge" that appears to have been written to give MINI something to win and Fiat something to dream about, but the rules don't say anything about hybrid power, only maximum displacement of 1.6 liters with no multipliers. Hmm. If you need an experienced driver/navigator/crew, let me knowmazdeuce wrote: A brief search makes it look like nobody has taken a volt to Targa Newfoundland.The most reasonable idea yet. I think a road trip is in order!
There would be some bragging rights to winning the "Next Generation Challenge".....think of the headlines:
Targa Racing: Our hybrid went head-to-head against traditional cars - AND WON! (Part one: an ultra-detailed account of how we modified the car to prepare it for race duty.)
I really like the Targa idea!
And make sure you leave the numbers on the car when you return it at the end of the lease.
I am really interested in the findings of this "project". In my area, none of the dealers have even had a Volt on the lot yet. I actually had a conspiracy theory that the Volt existed only for "reviews" as the only ones I have seen so far have Manufacturer plates. Thumbs up on this one for sure!
I have a 2011 Volt. VIN 777, bought in March 2011. Just hit 15k miles. I'll have a lot to say, so just sit back. :)
I leased it (let someone else take the risk) because I like neat cars and this one is, IMHO, the most interesting vehicle to come out in a long, long time. It's only the 2nd new car I've acquired in 22 years of driving. It is really, really good. At 15k, it's still rock solid. Nothing squeaks, rattles, or falls off. I've had 1 warranty issue, the charge door was getting a little lazy.
I love driving it. It's not a sports car in any sense but it has a good ride/handling compromise and does not understeer like a pig. In fact, my "I think I will get one" moment was when I realized you can rotate it under braking w/o the stability control going nuts.
Here's the driving eval I posted on corner-carvers:
me said: Well, it's no 3 series BMW. OTOH, it's not an understeering pig and it does not discourage you from going reasonably fast, which is good since you're always striving to maintain momentum. It gets quite a bit out of the 580 treadwear Goodyears on it although they have quite a bit to say at big slip angles. The steering is nicely weighted but not a lot of feel. The ride/handling balance is very good although I think a touch more rebound wouldn't hurt. You can rotate it a little under braking w/o the stability control going berserk. As I've mentioned before, the regen braking sometimes contributes to a little non-linearity, ramping up decel at precisely the instant your easing off pressure. It doesn't bother me anymore - probably I'm just cornering faster and not braking as much. My only real complaint is with rear axle lateral location. Hit a good mid-corner bump and it feels like the ass end of the car moves out 6" then comes back, like all the bushings back their are made of marshmallows. The instant response (and 273 ft lbs) of the electric motor is fun, especially in Sport mode. As I mentioned before, it really will go 101mph under electric power.
David S. Wallens wrote:JG Pasterjak wrote: I may have to get an emergency Miata just in case. jgI keep one tucked away in the corner of the garage just in case.
Like a $50 bill in your wallet. For Emergencies Only.
I know practically nothing bout the Volt except that it isn't ugly.
If it turns out to be a boring exercise - promise you will put a cage in it and do rally.
Here's my 10k mile report:
me said: 10,000 mile report. I intend to relay some data. It's just that - data. I don't care that I could have saved xxx by driving E36 M3box yyy. Really. I did not lease this car to save one thin time. I also don't care where my electricity comes from. Coal, nuke, burning kittens, whatever. I've looked up my local distribution of sources just to have ammunition against the most annoying shiny happy people but I don't really care. Neither do you guys, and you know it. That said, hardly anything to report. Time (10 months) has done nothing to diminish the pleasure of driving this car. I'll say it - I love EV operation. It's silent, requires no warm up, responds instantly (no shifting), saves trips to the pump. I (obviously) love burning dead dinosaurs too, but for just grinding around town, EV is awesome. The car is still solid. Nothing is buzzing, rattling, or falling off. For long highway slogs, it's pretty good. Cruising at 75, where it gets 38mpg or so on a long drive, the engine is unobtrusive but if you get on it, it reveals itself as the little 4 cylinder thrasher that it is. I prefer my XJR overall for that purpose though. The miles just fly by in that car. While the Volt is extremely quiet, it is not heavily insulated in the way the 4000lb Jaguar is, so road noise from traffic is more intrusive in the Volt. I'll never be thrilled with the brakes. Regen, which it does a lot of, just does not match hydraulics. There's always a bare fraction of a delay as you modulate and the final stop at a light requires more pressure than typical. The worst is approaching a stop, easing off, then realizing you really DO have to stop. That second application is never smooth. Later, when you get in your Ferrari, which has amazing brakes, you discover your brain has created all kinds of smoothing algorithms to compensate for the Volt brakes, which make you jerk to a stop like an idiot. I've been to the dealer once. I had them rotate my tires (don't tell my friends) and address the only two problems I've had. The charge door was lazy, occaisionally needing a helping hand and the plug on the charger had been damaged from my Kill-A-Watt overheating/melting and capturing the plug. I think the Kill-A-Watt does not handle 12A loads so well but the EVSE plug is not the best ever either. I think a little more metallic mass would go a long way to letting it dissipate the heat. Really happy with the service guys at the dealer. They've sold a dozen Volts and were pretty enthusiastic about it. So, hot off the iPad OnStar app: 10,114 miles, 58.3 gallons of gasoline. 8099 EV miles, approximately 2750 kWh (I used 34 kWh/100miles - I observed 32.5 average when I was paying attention but it's worse in the cold weather) So, 34.6 MPG on gasoline according to the car. I'm 80% EV. Most of my gasoline miles have been on long trips - a 320 mile RT to a customer site primarily. On an average week of commuting/weekend use, the gas engine never runs and when it does, it's often for only a few miles, which probably brings my average down. It warms up pretty aggressively (WOT at 1700rpm or so). Longest time between fill-ups: 3 months/3000 miles. That's it. I'd definitely get one again. They are not selling so great, which makes them even more attractive. There's a dealer on Long Island offering $1995 down/$299mo on a base car. That's an awesome deal IMHO. In the end, the running costs on this car are dirt cheap and should at least be considered. I was spending $250mo to put gas in my XJR plus another $100 maintaining it. I'm spending about $60-80 in electricity (0.17/kWh) + gas in the Volt. Plenty of ways to go cheaper - I get it - but I actually like this car. Cheap running costs are just a bonus.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I know practically nothing bout the Volt except that it isn't ugly. If it turns out to be a boring exercise - promise you will put a cage in it and let Sperlo do rally.
FTFY
Lo the many pre conceived notions. As always personal experience is a thousand times better than internet dribbling.(except for mine of course) I have driven the Volt many times. It is an excellent car. A friend is trying to set the hyper mile record with hers. Although I am by nature a muscle car guy, I love that. And the lease price was absolutely compelling. Subtract the cost of gas from your 399ish payment and it really really makes sense. Overall a shockingly good car.
Thanks Mr Fennell. There's a good article or two just in those write-ups.
Stealthtercel wrote: Having a Volt in the hands of a knowledgeable, articulate person we trust does not have a down side. Fight the misinformation! This is the best idea I've heard today.
^This.
I am totally uninterested in late-model EV's. I need one like I need a hole in the head, but it'd be cool if you could change my mind about them. I'm hopeful.
I actually hope that you keep it stock for a while so that we can get a sense of what the car is like from an enthusiast-owner's perspective. Sure, there are enthusiasts who have driven press cars at other magazines, but none have put up their own cash and made a three year commitment. I applaud you.
I never had much interest in EVs or hybrids, I am appalled at the thought of leasing and I've been trying to swear off new cars in general, but, I agree, this is a case where leasing makes sense. Your costs are relatively fixed and you have a known time frame to deal with. Also, this is the type of car that I could probably keep under the 12k per year window and not mind turning in after three years.
Plus, I think they're really good looking.
Still typing...
I didn't mention range. EPA rates the '11 and '12 at 35 miles in mixed driving. The '13 bumps that to 38. In my daily suburban driving around from 25-50mph, I'm on track for 45+ miles every day the temps are over 50 or so. I've gone 35 miles (remember, that's the rating for mixed driving) at 70 with the AC on. I've broken 50 actual driven miles once w/o being an annoying hypermiler. BTW, the range estimate is extremely good.
Winter hurts your EV miles pretty badly if you're one of those whiny anti-frostbite people. Electric operation exposes you to the true cost of heat and it's not pretty. IIRC, the heater, which warms the coolant loop (a valve cuts it off from the ICE/radiator when it's not running), uses as much as 3kW. The cold hurts battery efficiency too, for a little extra insult. The result is that on a 25F day, I'll see 30 miles.
Fortunately, you can use house power to pre-warm the car but I only use 120, which supplies at about 1.4kw, so I'm using battery as I do it. I park outside too (you suggest to my wife that her cherry '91 318is give up its garage spot) so the interior starts at ambient on those cold winter mornings.
Niggling details about heat: At around 25F, the car will start and run to provide heat to the cabin whether you have battery charge available or not. It will run until the coolant gets to some temp (150F?) then shut off until it comes down to 105 or so. As you might imagine, this annoys the kind of person who buys a Volt to NOT run the ICE to no end, especially when it happens on very short trips. I believe the newer cars permit you to lower the temp threshold so it will happen less frequently.
Some awesome info there, and thanks for the tip on the CC thread. I'll be hitting that hard when I have some time.
I have ordered a 220V charging station (a 30amp one, not the 16amp one GM sells. I want to be somewhat future proof here). My wife is already eyeing the thing covetously—she's even more in the sweet-spot than I am as far as EV operation—so the charge station will be installed so that it can reach more than one car should the need arise.
jg
I find it slightly amusing that some folks are claiming JG's new car "isn't Grassroots"
He's been here for over 20 years folks......I think he's got a good idea of what is Grassroots and what is not.
Grassroots does not = cheap
FWIW-- I've driven the Volt, and I think it kicks ass. No, it doesn't kick ass in a rocket sled kind of way, but keep in mind, a Model T Ford is not a Bugatti Veyron. This car is very early in the electric car / hybrid family tree.....what will we be looking at in 20 years.... 40 years? For the record, it actually has punch off the line, is very comfortable, and handles surprisingly well. The Volt isn't your typical econo penalty box.
It is also arguably the most technologically advanced car ever sold to the general public. That's saying something.
JG Pasterjak wrote: Some awesome info there, and thanks for the tip on the CC thread. I'll be hitting that hard when I have some time. I have ordered a 220V charging station (a 30amp one, not the 16amp one GM sells. I want to be somewhat future proof here). My wife is already eyeing the thing covetously—she's even more in the sweet-spot than I am as far as EV operation—so the charge station will be installed so that it can reach more than one car should the need arise. jg
I like what y'all are doing, looking forward to future updates
Joe Gearin wrote: I find it slightly amusing that some folks are claiming JG's new car "isn't Grassroots"
Of course it's grassroots. It's also treeroots, bushroots, and vineroots. 
I may not be a fan of the car for reasons mentioned. It's overpriced (though I'm not surprised at price given how much money went into development) and only makes sense for certain people in certain situations. But I do agree with Joe that it'll be interesting to see it's place in history several decades from now.
I am curious what some minor changes will reveal about the car. You need to hit that kart track 100% stock. Then throw on a set of tires from an scca street tire class genre, then a set of r compounds. For reference, do it against a miata, and maybe some other appliance type of car, with the same tires and compare times.
I'm thinking a smaller kart track like the ones you folks use on occasion may perfectly suit the car.
Really it might be a case of decent tires and alignment really wake a car up.
Interesting car purchase, I'll be following it. I've worked for an EV company for about 7 months now (not one of the ones that comes to mind first for most folks) and the more I learn about EV tech, the more interesting it is to me. I'd absolutely love an article in GRM about building a hi-po EV or hybrid, whether it's a LoCost sort of build, modifying a gas/diesel only car, or just modifying an existing hybrid/ electric vehicle to wring out some extra performance and/or MPG. There's some interesting battery technology out there- LiFePO4 and Nimh would be high on my list for an EV or hybrid.
When Ford came out with a press release for the Electric Focus, I immediately went online and checked them out. Its worth a ponder, as is the Leaf and Volt. But for me, the economics simply don't make sense for any new car. And almost anyone who has a paid-for vehicle is in precisely the same position as I am. Even if I'm saving $200 per month in gas, a $400 lease (and I don't even want to know what the monthly on a 60 month loan is on a 33k after-rebates car) just doesn't make sense. But, if I were in the market for a new car anyway, that'd be a different story.
As others have said, hybrids and EVs seem to be the way the market's moving. GRM might as well embrace it and see where we can go with it. We might be excited, enthusiastic, or skeptical, but I guarantee you, we will be surprised, and educated.
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