GTO for autocross

I've won STU in an SCCA Regional in an 05 GTO. They autocross better than the most of the cars in F-Stock, but they really need the suspension allowances of STU or higher to be competitive. The big issue is actually tires. You can't get more than a 245 up front without serious rubbing on the strut and/or fender lip, at stock ride height. 275's on the front of S197's are common. That makes a big difference.

As a DD they are vastly superior to even the 13 Mustangs. The IRS works really well on the street, the interior is the best GM has done in the last 45 years, and the driving dynamics are just spot-on. Gas mileage is actually surprisingly good (good aero, 6-speed T56, all the torque to loaf around at 700RPM). Absolutely everything is available for them, but a little pricier (for GM stuff, they're dirt cheap compared to a Porsche for example) due to the small run volume, and you expect to have to import stuff from Oz every once in awhile.

Based on the Holden, try, it is a Monaro with a Pontiac grill.

Well, F stock now includes M3's and the 5.0 which are way fast with a capable chassis.

I drive an M5 now but have realized it is mainly a summer car. I don't take it with me to college as it just isn't reliable enough.

Question. How expensive is it to maintain a Z06? Compared to say an E36 M3 and S2000. Mustangs and the Japanese cars I'm considering all have warranties so those are not important.

According to RockAuto, parts are "115%" more on the S2k vs. the Z06. 104% more on the M3.

Granted, they do not stipulate Z06 vs a regular C5. so I would say they are comparable.

Tires are obviously more expensive. All other consumables and accessories I priced out weren't much different from anything else out there.

Only thing I have heard from owners who track the car are control arm bushings wallowing out. IIRC, heim'd bushings from Pfadt are ~$1100.

That RockAuto tool is helpful. However, it doesn't tell me the real life parts I need to replace. Sort of like the cooling system on the E36 going out often. What common things break on a frequently autocrossed Z06 or S2000?

Mazda787b wrote: According to RockAuto, parts are "115%" more on the S2k vs. the Z06. 104% more on the M3.

115% = 1.15 X Corvette
104% = 1.04 X Corvette

115% more = 2.15 X Corvette
104% more = 2.04 X Corvette

Big difference.

What regularly fails on an autocrossed S2K? In STR trim, pretty much nothing. On the track they can crack rotors though.

I just checked the repair index and it said the M3 is 1.06 times the Corvette. What I'm reading is that M3 parts are on average 6% more than parts for a Vette.

I think a test drive of a S2k is in order this weekend. Maybe another visit to the dealer for a BRZ is also necessary. Then I'll find some Stangs and Vettes to drive later.

SWMBO and I test drove a GTO before she got her RX8. We both agreed that the GTO felt heavy. Power was there, it made good noises, and sitting inside it was a nice place to be... but the steering wasn't sharp and the turn-in felt sluggish. It felt like it would need a way beefier front sway at the very least. Not what I would want for an auto-x. It would be a near perfect GT car though.

ProDarwin wrote:

Mazda787b wrote: According to RockAuto, parts are "115%" more on the S2k vs. the Z06. 104% more on the M3.

115% = 1.15 X Corvette 104% = 1.04 X Corvette 115% **more** = 2.15 X Corvette 104% **more** = 2.04 X Corvette Big difference. What regularly fails on an autocrossed S2K? In STR trim, pretty much nothing. On the track they can crack rotors though.

You're completely correct, and I am an idiot who apparently forgot 6 grade math.

Had one. Like the others have said, in F-Stock you'll be hard pressed to be competitive. Way too heavy with not enough tire. On longer more speed oriented layouts It would do pretty good, but throw more slaloms and some Chicago boxes into the mix and it was rough going. As a DD it was an awesome grand touring car, a little thirstier than I wanted to pay for though. Never had a thing go wrong with the car in the 60k I put on it in 2 years. Insurance was about the same for my wife's MINI-S.

Shying away from the GTO now.

I test drove a '14 Stang yesterday. It felt huge, even compared to my M5. But based on specifications, it is only 3 inches wider. Makes me wonder if it would even be better on tighter autox courses like the one I had today.

Are there good E36 M3 alternatives in the used market for under $20k?

Still considering a Miata or S2k, but would like a little more room than that.

Under $20k:

S2k. WRX, STi, or Evo. M Coupe. C5. RX8. E46 M3. Hyundai Genesis.

I am pleasantly surprised by the trunk space in the S2000. It's not capacious, but it is usable for everything I have asked of it so far. I can do a laundry run for two people just barely. I can stand two 5 gallon water jugs upright. Still nowhere near the space I had in my M Coupe. We have the RX8 if we want just a tad more space for two people, luggage, and the dog; and we have the Astro Van if we really need luggage space.

MINIzguy wrote: Are there good E36 M3 alternatives in the used market for under $20k?

E46 M3? Fantastic cars...

I would like to keep the car RWD. Just a personal preference at this point in my life. I want to have tail out fun when I want to hoon around on a fun run.

I've driven a Genesis before and it also feels big.

A C5 is also the same size as my M5, and the obvious tire costs has swayed me from it a little. It does seem a little overkill for a young guy like me to drive one.

I work at a Mazda dealer and RX8's are nothing but problems. Ignition coils and plugs wear out, leading to a bad running engine. They drink oil and as a by product, release unfriendly particles to the cats. Just another nightmare IMO.

I ask around BMW forums for a comparison between the M3 and M coupe/roaster. People tell me that the M roadster is a battle with more competitive cars such as the S2k or Miata. The M3 is much more competitive in both stock and STU.

It costs too much to maintain an E46 M3 in my opinion. Most in my area are clapped out and owned my every 20 year old Hispanic kid.

Why does the E36 M3 answer all my needs, yet the prices are going up and up to a point they don't seem worth it to me?

E36 M3 prices are going up? When I sold mine a year ago they were still quite low...

MINIzguy wrote: I ask around BMW forums for a comparison between the M3 and M coupe/roaster. People tell me that the M roadster is a battle with more competitive cars such as the S2k or Miata. The M3 is much more competitive in both stock and STU.

How important is it to you for the car to be competitive for Auto-X?

The M coupe/roadster both have an M3 powertrain with an E30 rear end and a shorter wheelbase. They do not handle as well as the M3. Additionally, the roadster will be a flexy flyer and give you even less luggage space than an S2000.

If you really are set on being competitive in Auto-X and having RWD in a car that will be new enough to be relatively fresh and provide relatively low operating costs, your answer really is S2000. Not enough luggage space? Something else will have to give somewhere.

What are you willing to sacrifice?
RWD? go STi
Competitive in auto-x? go M Coupe (not roadster)
Low maintenance? go E46 M3
Fresh interior? go E36 M3

If you really really are hankering for V8 RWD hoonage, sounds like you need a C5 FRC and will just have to accept that it is going to go through consumables faster.

Or maybe what you need to do is get yourself two cars. A sensible DD and a beater toy that can be competitive in Auto-X. Say, Focus and Miata. Or even Mustang and Miata. Personally, I love having a van and a roadster.

MINIzguy wrote: I ask around BMW forums for a comparison between the M3 and M coupe/roaster. People tell me that the M roadster is a battle with more competitive cars such as the S2k or Miata. The M3 is much more competitive in both stock and STU.

A guy in my region built up a Z3 2.8 (or 3.0?) for STR and did pretty well with it locally, occasionally beating a reasonably well-driven S2K that has had cubic $$$ spent on it. Especially on courses where there were a lot of slow corners and the torque of the 6 was an advantage over the Honda. I think there was something about the gearing that made him believe the non-M was a better choice for STR. For better or worse, he sold it during the off-season and went back to his E36 M3 in RTR when he needed to reduce the fleet for parking reasons. I think part of him regrets the decision as the M3 has been a needy beast recently.

Whether or not the M3 will be competitive seems to be course dependent. From what I've heard, the last couple of Nationals courses have been BMW-friendly vs. the boost-buggies. Locally that may not be the case.

Here's a video of one of the guys that runs with the local SCCA group.

I know for a fact that nothing suspension wise is stock on it, but I can't quote you $, times or anything like that..

But god does this thing sound amazing going around the course.

2006 GTO AutoX

I was actually thinking about picking up the black GTO that has been sitting at the local dealer for the last couple years if I get a job over the mountain. Kinda figure it would make the drive at least entertaining...

Not the type of car many folks around here drive. This is prime 4x4 country so the poor lil GTO has been passed over time and time again. There are also quite a few older Subie Wagons.

erm87 wrote: Here's a video of one of the guys that runs with the local SCCA group. I know for a fact that nothing suspension wise is stock on it, but I can't quote you $, times or anything like that.. But god does this thing sound amazing going around the course. 2006 GTO AutoX

He's steering with the rear tires just as much as the fronts. I need to drive one of these!

Ok, been checking out M3's lately. Saw a S2000 but they are either clapped out or way modified in my area.

I thought of another C stock car. 350z. Didn't this magazine do an article on them?

MINIzguy wrote: I thought of another C stock car. 350z. Didn't this magazine do an article on them?

A guy in my region runs one (don't remember if it's a 350 or a 370). It's a bit course dependent. Our region often runs at an old Air Force runway = lots of slaloms and various transition type elements with a big 180 turn-around. The course designers go a pretty good job, but there's only so much they can do. The Nissan guy hates running there to the point where he just doesn't go anymore. And he's a pretty good driver (National trophy winner), but he and his co-driver have basically determined through the years that heavy slalom courses are not the Z's forte.

Make sure you tire budget is deep... but if you were considering a GTO, you already knew that.