Perhaps an all wheel drive sienna would be a good compromise for everyone...drives like a car, but can go on the beach and in the snow and not be totally hopeless in a field or fire road. Should tow an e30 on a light trailer without a real issue, with trailer brakes.
irish44j wrote: 3 of the 5 vehicles are a 1985 318i rallycross car, a $200 e21 project, and a very non-original Triumph GT6. These cars are one of the reasons I want towing capability in the first place, lol.
HA well, see - there is the problem right there. You are classifying those as vehicles! You only have 2 real ones. Just get a truck and a minivan 
If you get a minivan then you need something else to tow. 3500 lbs just is not enough to tow cars.
Ford Flex? Looks like you can configure it for a 4500lb rating.
NGTD wrote: If you get a minivan then you need something else to tow. 3500 lbs just is not enough to tow cars.
How is it not? 3500lbs is plenty.
In reply to ProDarwin:
Depends on the car and how you haul it. 1600lb race car on a light open deck tiler without too much in the way of spares and tools? Sure. E30+trailer is pushing it, and well over depending on the E30 and trailer, with the weight of the car alone.
4Msfam wrote: Have you seen the Honda of Alabama racing Oddessey? Also, a fine magazine called GRM uses the same platform for their towing needs. See their Honda Pilot reviews. I also have a couple of Airstreams.. CanAmRV in Toronto seems to be the go too for Canadians towing with minivans. They sell beefed up hitches to strengthen the rear end for heavier loads. their customers always seem happy. As does GRM with their Pilot. Keep the wife happy.
To be clear--- we only use the Ridgeline for occasional-- light towing. We have a full-sized Ford Van that is our "tow vehicle"
Years ago we used to tow with an Odyssey, but it was inadequate for our needs. It would tow a light car (like the Ro-Spit) pretty well, but if you loaded up the van with magazines (as we nearly always do) it would soon reach capacity....and over. It got pretty hairy towing with a front-wheel drive minivan, loaded to the gills, and towing a car. I'm pretty sure we were doing wheelies!
Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to ProDarwin: Depends on the car and how you haul it. 1600lb race car on a light open deck tiler without too much in the way of spares and tools? Sure. E30+trailer is pushing it, and well over depending on the E30 and trailer, with the weight of the car alone.
I was under the impression that the E30, the heaviest of his toy cars, was under 2500lbs. With a <1000lb trailer, it sounds like he is well within the limit.
In reply to ProDarwin: Slight correction - he is ON the limit. Then you put coolers, tools and people in the van. And you are over.
The old Astrovan 4.3l has a 5,500lb towing capacity. My dad had an '88 and would pull a 21ft ski boat that had to be near that weight. It did a great job for many many years.
I can only speak to the personal experience I have, but our Kia Sedona is a decent tow vehicle. It can't tow as well as the '93 Suburban I once had could, but for occassional "light" duty, it's fine. All the cars I've towed with it, and there have been plenty, were on a heavy as crap former U-Haul tow dolly. Like others talked about, brakes are the biggest concern. Just drive smart, and they're fine. Otherwise, it's drama free.
I've never taken it off roading, but it's been through plenty of snow and does great. I've also had it in some relatively muddy fields and it's fine.
poopshovel wrote:chrispy wrote: I have a 2003 Mazda MPV that came without the tow package. Online research showed the tow package consisted of a larger trans cooler, bigger radiator, wiring harness, and hitch. I added all but the radiator with aftermarket parts to get the max 3500 tow rating. I was towing a 1987 VW Golf on either a dolly or flat tow (tow bar). The MPV struggled with the loaded dolly, not so much with the bar, but now tows 2 karts on a utility trailer and I can't tell its there. Based on my experience, I won't tow more than 2500 lbs with a minivan. The transaxle is the weak point, but I think this is common to towing with all FWD vehicles. I do know of a gentleman who trailered his CSP Miata with his Volvo wagon, so anything is possible.I have SERIOUS MPV lust. I fought valiantly trying to convince mama that MPV > Mazda5 in every way, but lost out due to styling :( That is a LOT of car for the money.
We bought ours new with 7 miles on the odometer; it now has 125k+. Best vehicle we've owned. I'd buy another if the kids weren't outgrowing it and I needed more towing capacity. Sorry for the interuption.
We have an 06 Odyssey and I've gone through this same thing in my head over, and over and over. Unless you have light cars the trailer will easily push you over if you have anything else in the van. That includes spending the big $$ for an aluminum trailer, or fabbing your own that works enough for the job, and nothing more!
Anything over 2k requires trailer brakes, so anything that remotely resembles a modern vehicle will need to be on a braked dolly at the very least. Which gets me to what I'm doing, keep the race car under 2k and flat tow it. Chances are it can at least roll home after the races, and if it can't.. I'll figure it out. Not sure if that works for you, generally the vehicles have to be registered/insured to do that.
I have a Flex ecoboost and it's rated for 4500 lbs. Mine has the factory hitch and sway control. I've towed my Alfa Spider several times with it and I sometimes forget that its back there. I have 3rd row seating and I have carried adults in the back, but that's subjective to who the adult is. I'm sure that a minivan 3rd row would be more comfortable.
irish44j wrote:Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I would seriously consider just getting the Mrs the minivan she really wants, selling off one or two of the other (5 vehicles you said?) and buying a proper, cheap old 2WD tow monster 2500 that sits around waiting to haul trailers, or old engine blocks away to scrap... a good old fashioned work PU-truck is as useful as a welder or a lathe.3 of the 5 vehicles are a 1985 318i rallycross car, a $200 e21 project, and a very non-original Triumph GT6. These cars are one of the reasons I want towing capability in the first place, lol. Collectively, if I sold all of them I might be able to buy lunch for a few weeks, lol. The only car I have that's worth any money is my daily driver 90k mile WRX, which isn't going away any time soon.
So I guess ditching the WRX and having a nice tow vehicle as the DD is out?
That's what I'm going to have to do since I don't have the room for a beater pickup and a trailer, and a race, and my DD and my wife's car.
I also don't want another vehicle to take care of either.
z31maniac wrote:irish44j wrote:So I guess ditching the WRX and having a nice tow vehicle as the DD is out? That's what I'm going to have to do since I don't have the room for a beater pickup and a trailer, and a race, and my DD and my wife's car. I also don't want another vehicle to take care of either.Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I would seriously consider just getting the Mrs the minivan she really wants, selling off one or two of the other (5 vehicles you said?) and buying a proper, cheap old 2WD tow monster 2500 that sits around waiting to haul trailers, or old engine blocks away to scrap... a good old fashioned work PU-truck is as useful as a welder or a lathe.3 of the 5 vehicles are a 1985 318i rallycross car, a $200 e21 project, and a very non-original Triumph GT6. These cars are one of the reasons I want towing capability in the first place, lol. Collectively, if I sold all of them I might be able to buy lunch for a few weeks, lol. The only car I have that's worth any money is my daily driver 90k mile WRX, which isn't going away any time soon.
Yeah, definitely out of the question. The car has 90k miles in 4+ years if that tells you how much commuting I do. The WRX is already no gas-sipper (average 24ish mpg on a typical tank). In my commute any kind of powerful tow rig would be getting 12-13mpg tops (and generally suck for navigating through DC city traffic, parking in our tiny parking garage, etc).
Hence why i prefer my wife to have it, since she puts about 6-7k miles per year on her vehicles, mostly just hauling the kids to soccer, grocery store, and errands (and the occasional longer family trip). With the low miles, low MPG doesn't really hurt much. 4Runner isn't exactly a Prius anyhow.
AS to the trailer, the ALU trailer downside is I actually have to buy a trailer. As it is now, it's always easy to find a ~2k lb trailer to borrow from the local rallycross guys when we need one. Not quite as easy to find a good tow rig that someone will let us borrow for a long-haul race or something. The other guys on the team live in a townhouse with absolutely no place to keep a big truck (they already keep the e30 racecar in their one garage and park their DDs outside). So just having the tow rig is sufficient. Trailers are easy to borrow/rent inexpensively if needed.
As a few others mentioned, a Ford Flex would be ideal in my book. As mentioned with factory tow package it's a 4500lb. tow capacity.
Real 3rd row. all wheel drive. EcoBoost available.
Looks are subjective though, personally I love them. Not sure your wife's take. Luckily my wife likes them and they're very high on the list for our next family hauler vehicle.
logdog wrote: Happy wife, happy life. Let her pick the minivan and pick yourself an aluminum trailer.
Aluminum trailers have little to do with weight savings and more to do with corrosion/longevity. I've done the comparison, on an open deck, dual axle trailer, you are going to save less than 500lb's and spend thousands more.
patgizz wrote: let wife pick her ride. buy $1000 pickup truck for your occasional towing and home depot runs.
This is the only answer. You are looking for a unicorn that is non-existant, as nothing has 3 rows that is suitable for daily driving and towing all in one. You have to sacrifice either the daily driving, or the fact that the 3rd row is mostly useless.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to ProDarwin: Depends on the car and how you haul it. 1600lb race car on a light open deck tiler without too much in the way of spares and tools? Sure. E30+trailer is pushing it, and well over depending on the E30 and trailer, with the weight of the car alone.
I always find it funny when people talk about towing weights. First, a single axle 14' trailer is the exception, not the norm when towing. Second, I've had and saw enough blow outs when doing everything right that I am not a big fan of single axle trailers. Third, TRAILERS ARE HEAVIER THAN YOU THINK. The lightest 20' open deck trailer I could find (that was not homebuilt) in NORTH AMERICA weighed 2000lbs and it is built as LIGHT as possible. You will not find a premade trailer that weighs under 1500lbs, end of discussion. Give me a link if you want to prove me wrong.
And in saying that, you then have to consider the weight of EVERYTHING which takes away from the tow rating. Lets say you have a mythical 1500lb car trailer. Add at LEAST 2000lbs for the car (in reference to the e30). You are already at 3500lbs. Add 300lbs for occupants (two people in the vehicle), another 300 for tools, spares, and additional wheels. You are already well over 4000lbs and I didn't even try.
Never benchmark for best case scenario, it's how plans fail miserably. I am also under the assumption he wants to tow in a legal manner in any of my remarks. I have never saw a 1000lb trailer that is legitimately legal for road use. As another aside, maybe a tow dolly is what you should look into?
And finally, the only vehicle I can think of that meets all your criteria has already been mentioned; astrovan. Possibly a toureg, but that sounds out of your price range (the diesel will get good mpg though and tow well!)
HiTempguy wrote:logdog wrote: Happy wife, happy life. Let her pick the minivan and pick yourself an aluminum trailer.Aluminum trailers have little to do with weight savings and more to do with corrosion/longevity. I've done the comparison, on an open deck, dual axle trailer, you are going to save less than 500lb's and spend thousands more.patgizz wrote: let wife pick her ride. buy $1000 pickup truck for your occasional towing and home depot runs.This is the only answer. You are looking for a unicorn that is non-existant, as nothing has 3 rows that is suitable for daily driving and towing all in one. You have to sacrifice either the daily driving, or the fact that the 3rd row is mostly useless.Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to ProDarwin: Depends on the car and how you haul it. 1600lb race car on a light open deck tiler without too much in the way of spares and tools? Sure. E30+trailer is pushing it, and well over depending on the E30 and trailer, with the weight of the car alone.I always find it funny when people talk about towing weights. First, a single axle 14' trailer is the exception, not the norm when towing. Second, I've had and saw enough blow outs when doing everything right that I am not a big fan of single axle trailers. Third, TRAILERS ARE HEAVIER THAN YOU THINK. The lightest 20' open deck trailer I could find (that was not homebuilt) in NORTH AMERICA weighed 2000lbs and it is built as LIGHT as possible. You will not find a premade trailer that weighs under 1500lbs, end of discussion. Give me a link if you want to prove me wrong. And in saying that, you then have to consider the weight of EVERYTHING which takes away from the tow rating. Lets say you have a mythical 1500lb car trailer. Add at LEAST 2000lbs for the car (in reference to the e30). You are already at 3500lbs. Add 300lbs for occupants (two people in the vehicle), another 300 for tools, spares, and additional wheels. You are already well over 4000lbs and I didn't even try. Never benchmark for best case scenario, it's how plans fail miserably. I am also under the assumption he wants to tow in a legal manner in any of my remarks. I have never saw a 1000lb trailer that is legitimately legal for road use. As another aside, maybe a tow dolly is what you should look into? And finally, the only vehicle I can think of that meets all your criteria has already been mentioned; astrovan. Possibly a toureg, but that sounds out of your price range (the diesel will get good mpg though and tow well!)
all true. The 18-foot open deck trailer we've borrowed before is 1700lbs, and it's pretty basic. The Chump e30 is probably around 2300lbs by itself. We're going to drive a Sequoia and an Odyssey. Whichever one the wife wants to get will dictate what direction I go next with regards to towing and other utility tasks. We'll see I guess. But I do appreciate all the advice!
HiTempguy wrote: You will not find a premade trailer that weighs under 1500lbs, end of discussion. Give me a link if you want to prove me wrong.
For me, I'm looking at 14-16' trailer. There 20' is 1500lbs.
Under 1300lbs for both of these, dual axle, trailer brakes, etc.
http://www.alumaklm.com/tandem-axle-utilities/item/27-8200-tandem-utility-trailers.html
For comparable steel/wood deck trailers, from published weights that I've seen, most are typically 700-800lbs more.
If the 1000lb trailer is a unicorn, then I agree with others not to go the minivan route. Shame. I like the idea of the Ford Flex solution though.
z31maniac wrote:HiTempguy wrote: You will not find a premade trailer that weighs under 1500lbs, end of discussion. Give me a link if you want to prove me wrong.For me, I'm looking at 14-16' trailer. There 20' is 1500lbs. Under 1300lbs for both of these, dual axle, trailer brakes, etc. http://www.alumaklm.com/tandem-axle-utilities/item/27-8200-tandem-utility-trailers.html For comparable steel/wood deck trailers, from published weights that I've seen, most are typically 700-800lbs more.
My bad. I was referring to steel. Once again, extremely short and/or aluminum trailers are definitely not the norm. And I'm curious as to the price, which may negate its effectiveness (at the end of the day, very few people are going to buy a $5k 14 or 16' trailer. I am just saying that as an example, not that that is the actual price of those trailers). I haven't been able to find new aluminum trailers for under $3k, and they were garbage.
My experience is anecdotal. I do the best research I can. But people have to be realistic about their expectations, and I spent literally a good 100+ hours finding a trailer combo that was right for me. Tis a lot of work!
Edit- The 8216 (16') aluma is $6500+ tax here in Albera btw. My 20' steel trailer which weighs 2000lbs and has a gvw of 7klbs was $2300 in comparison.
Lightweight aluminum trailers and a lightweight car will get you below the 3500 pound tow rating on a minivan. I looked at it for a while, but there were two major factors against it. The first was cost -- the 1000 pound aluminum trailers I looked at (featherlite, for example) were upwards of $6500! I could buy a steel trailer, a mid-90s Suburban, and keep the minivan as well and still come out ahead!
The second factor was that making the minivan the tow vehicle meant that I'd be taking my wife's car away every time I went autoxing, and that was not really a good idea. :)
Also all those ratings are w/ tow package. Using a Chrysler van as an example, the payload is 1400lbs, that meaning, if you filled all 7 seats with fat Americans, you would be over capacity. I cant seem to find a GCVWR for it, they tend to restrict the payload to some extent if you are at towing capacity.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: I cant seem to find a GCVWR for it, they tend to restrict the payload to some extent if you are at towing capacity.
Towing capacity is directly affected by gcvwr. As I stated in my example of what I figured he'd be looking at for towing, I factored in two 150lb individuals (which is light) @ 300lbs total. That directly takes away from the towing capacity, which is based on an empty vehicle at curb weight (w/ fluids). If you haul 1000lbs inside the vehicle, you're towing capacity has gone down by 1000lbs.
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