Help me choose a rabbit hole.

So I have this friend, we'll call him Dave, and he is at an important crossroads in his life. He is trying to decide which direction to go with his car, and really struggling with it. The car is his daily driver, and he competes in a stock autocross class locally.

His initial desire was to bolt on all kinds of fun stuff to add power, something he has never really done, and he has a great car for it with lots of options available. Being a turbo car (very similar to the Fiesta ST) this will immediately move him to Prepared class. (mess with the boost, go to the head of the class) He will no longer be a podium contender because this will not leave enough money in the budget to invest in class-competitive tires. But it will be fun and he can use the added power on the streets every day, maximizing his investment.

His second option is to put the money where it will do the most good at the autocross, and invest in Hoosiers and custom wheels to maximize the STX class allowances. He could add some other stuff like strut bars and braces, and even some exhaust stuff. He may or may not be competitive in STX, and he can't use this primary investment (wheels and tires) on the street, but he's never run on real slicks before and if he does well, he will feel like Mr. Big Time Happy Fun Guy.

His last option is to optimize the heck out of his car in his stock class because people who can drive stay in stock, and people who can't add stuff. OK, that may not entirely be true, but he heard that somewhere and it kinda resonated with him. Maybe work on the suspension as much as possible, take some driver's schools, practice and head to Nationals? Not a bucket list item for him, but it would be a lot of fun.

I don't know what to tell him, what would the hive do?

I have this friend who was in a similar position with racing. After years of participating - he shot the wad, so to speak, in preparing a car for BMW Club racing and went out and swept a podium for an entire weekend against tough competition proving to himself a long held line of thought that if just once he had everything right ... but he didn't have the money or time to keep that level of commitment up so he went endurance racing with friends to spread that out. This turned out to be a huge step backward in terms of preparedness, and frankly pretty berkeleying tedious standing around waiting to fuel/fix a car for 14hrs of the 18 when he wasn't driving it. It just didn't work out. It came to a bitter conclusion at Summit Point just last weekend, in fact, when he spent his vacation wrenching instead of driving.

He had already sold the IS car, truck, trailer, and so donated his share of the enduro car to his friends and was free clear of all racing cars for the first time since 1995.

He has bought a couple motorcycles and went riding and lived happily ever after.

The end.

Having a car that's built to be hoot on the street but noncompetitive in class is a lot of fun if you don't care about winning, but it sucks otherwise.

The Manic Miata is in SSM though it has a some stuff (big heavy rollbar) that isn't required, and leaves a bunch of other stuff (aero, more complex suspension, and power upgrades) on the table. I win my class with my local club because I don't have any real competition. If I went to any other region I would get pantsed and lose my lunch money immediately. It's OK, I don't mind... really, I don't, it's OK ma... but if I was worried about being competitive I would sell the car and do something else because SSM gets very expensive very quickly and I am starting out with a 4-litre deficit.

In his shoes, I would go the ST route and skip the big power options that bump him to Prepared. Big power is fun on the street, until you realize you're sharing the road with cops and mouthbreathing text msg addicts. ST add-ons, though, make the whole car a little better all around without breaking the bank or creating a monster to live with.

That being said, if he's the type that would benefit long term (and it sounds like he might be), the best investment is in seat time and instruction. In 3 years if he sells this car, the training and practice will stay with him instead of going away at a return of pennies on the dollar.

Hoosiers aren't allowed in STX.

With that said, I've become more and more a proponent of driving cars instead of working on them. That's my own preference, I'd rather tinker with small stuff and spend time driving than diving into a full fledged project. Other people enjoy the build. YMMV

Huckleberry wrote: I have this friend who was in a similar position with racing. After years of participating - he shot the wad, so to speak, in preparing a car for BMW Club racing and went out and swept a podium for an entire weekend against tough competition proving to himself a long held line of thought that if just once he had everything right ... but he didn't have the money or time to keep that level of commitment up so he went endurance racing with friends to spread that out. This turned out to be a huge step backward in terms of preparedness, and frankly pretty berkeleying tedious standing around waiting to fuel/fix a car for 14hrs of the 18 when he wasn't driving it. It just didn't work out. It came to a bitter conclusion at Summit Point just last weekend, in fact, when he spent his vacation wrenching instead of driving. He had already sold the IS car, truck, trailer, and so donated his share of the enduro car to his friends and was free clear of all racing cars for the first time since 1995. He has bought a couple motorcycles and went riding and lived happily ever after. The end.

What's he going to do with all that newfound disposable income!?

I totally get the train of thought with endurance competition, if you're wired to win. It's hard to get everyone on the same page in terms of commitment to all aspects of the venture. If you're driven to be at the pointy end of the field, there's a lot of room for frustration.

BTD wrote: Hoosiers aren't allowed in STX.

Let's say, for sake of argument, that his local club doesn't have that restriction. You would run a different PAX index, but could be in the class.

pinchvalve wrote: His last option is to optimize the heck out of his car in his stock class because people who can drive stay in stock, and people who can't add stuff. OK, that may not entirely be true, but he heard that somewhere and it kinda resonated with him. Maybe work on the suspension as much as possible, take some driver's schools, practice and head to Nationals? Not a bucket list item for him, but it would be a lot of fun.

Not always true. I know this guy (we'll call him 'Bob') who had a car that was poorly classed in stock classes and moving to ST actually gave him a BETTER pax than stock (From the stiff GS of .814 to STF with .794). IT actually made sense to make the "jump" to the "higher" class in this case because you got to buy cool stuff,get more power and handling, more wheel and tire and a better PAX at the same time.

Now... as to the current situation: But a mod car. Race on purple crack. keep stock dd car stock or mod to taste. done.

pinchvalve wrote:

BTD wrote: Hoosiers aren't allowed in STX.

Let's say, for sake of argument, that his local club doesn't have that restriction. You would run a different PAX index, but could be in the class.

I still wouldn't. Hoosiers and appropriate wheels - even used ones - are a $1000 investment minimum, and more like $2000 new. That's a lot of scratch to have tied up in a package that's illegal for ST in any of the surrounding SCCA regions.

Bobzilla wrote: Now... as to the current situation: Bu[y] a mod car. Race on purple crack. keep stock dd car stock or mod to taste. done.

I was assuming for the sake of this discussion that a second car was off the table. But, otherwise, this. It's nice to not worry if the autocross car is ready to take me to work or not. And it's even nicer to only drive the autocross car to work when I want to.

In reply to Huckleberry:

Sounds like some poor bastard I know who sold his 911 in the middle of a shockingly similar situation.

As to the question, it really depends on the person. I don't find it more fun (necessarily) to thrash a fast car on the street than a slow one. They're both fun in their own way and making it faster only makes it more fun briefly after which it just is what it is.
I DO like being competitive, relatively speaking. And it's usually cheaper to be competetive in stock classes than uncompetitive in the faster ones unless you're a weirdo like Bob. But.....and there's always a but.....if he decides to spend the money on seat time and schools and nationals, does he really have the time for that? I know a lot of guys who are completely tapped out time wise with 10 events a year. Throwing $5k at it will still yield them 10 events a year.

In reply to pinchvalve:

To each their own, and you...your friend needs to answer these these points as honestly as possible:

For me personally, there's a point on the street where if my car is any faster it's no longer fun, as I'm too concerned with the consequences - and a stock FiST is pushing those bounds already.

While I'm not generally a competitive person, autocross loses a lot of its meaning to me if I don't have competition - I don't want to be the over-dog, and don't really care whether I win very frequently, but before I spend a full day out in the weather & away from family/responsibilities/other hobbies I need to have a pretty good idea that I'm not going to be DFL. Exceptions given for new cars/setup/clubs or large events.

So me personally, I'd stay in H-Street until the SCCA puts something else in the class to dethrone it, then prep for ST or SP...or find a different car.

Chase stock. The playing field is a lot more level, prep is a bit easier, and cost stays down. Focus on driver mod.