Help Me Understand 914 Prices

So I'm gravitating towards 914; as these seem to be the only 60s-70s Porsche that I can afford or justify buying. i could buy a used Cayman or Boxster but I confess I just like the 70s cars better.

It would seem engine displacement and non rusty are the two major factors but I see dealer sale that seem to be fueled by crack or shameless optimism.

So correct my if I'm wrong; 

Anything under 10K is a rusty hulk, regardless of how good the wrapper looks.

10-20K for 1.7s

15-25K  for 2.0s

914-6s are 911 money.

Having owned a 74 914 1.8 my " observations ":

I would imagine even the 2 liter cars could easily handle more power.  For such an old platform, these cars handle quite well.

And depending on your potential budget...I think that I would stretch to a used Cayman.  There is nothing like having an air-cooled engine muttering inches from your ears, but the newer car is just a better idea, IMHO.

And yes, 914 prices are crazy, but if the car doesn't have rust, the lower maintenance costs make it a bit of a good deal...I guess.

350 SBC swaps were a thing on these apparently, I have almost bought a few but alllll cheap ones have always seemed super rusty

Carsandbikes said:

And depending on your potential budget...I think that I would stretch to a used Cayman.  There is nothing like having an air-cooled engine muttering inches from your ears, but the newer car is just a better idea, IMHO.

I'd tend to agree, but at this point in time $25k doesn't really buy you a cayman worth owning anymore unless you find a good deal somewhere. If you're going to get hosed on the purchase price and have to deal with some reliability issues anyway, might as well get the one you like better.

It's an air cooled Porsche, you either pay the tax to play or you don't..



 

I don't get it either. Air cooled cars are noisy, the engines smell and the heater rarely works. Most of them are slower than Camrys. 

That said, mine isn't for sale. And I want my Turbo Corvair Corsa back too. 

People used to call 914s Volkswagens. Now bugs and Karmann Ghias are worth money too. 

I don't get it. Probably too many people with money and not enough old sports cars. 

Carsandbikes said:

Having owned a 74 914 1.8 my " observations ":

I would imagine even the 2 liter cars could easily handle more power.  For such an old platform, these cars handle quite well.

And depending on your potential budget...I think that I would stretch to a used Cayman.  There is nothing like having an air-cooled engine muttering inches from your ears, but the newer car is just a better idea, IMHO.

And yes, 914 prices are crazy, but if the car doesn't have rust, the lower maintenance costs make it a bit of a good deal...I guess.

914 prices are pushing into Cayman prices; a Cayman is a beautifully balanced car (I've driven many on track) but I still like the 70s stuff. 

The Vintage cars cost really serious money to properly pay to have restored while a Cayman is just an old used car.  
 Has almost nothing to do with the true value of either and everything to do with market forces. 

The prices exceeded logic a decade ago.  The cars are amazingly balanced and will teach you smoothness and balance, at a lower speed than many other cars.  Try making it go faster and you will find out how flexible the chassis is, I watched R tires twist one so badly it required major alignment changes every year.  

If you ignore the costs and HAVE to have one, enjoy but you can get better performance for less money with other cars.  And then no one will say  "actually they are volkswagens "

I really don't see anything wrong with old Volkswagens. 

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

I love beetles and ghias as well. I've only driven a 914 once at an autocross but it was a fun car.

I ended up with a 914 project that I "thought" I wanted. That was until I started buying parts for the build. YIKES!!!! People are sure proud of their 30-40 year old P-car parts. That's why it will end up being Subaru powered "IF" I keep it. Big "IF" at this point......

In reply to lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter) :

Yes they do, hence my desire to avoid project cars.

Five years ago these were sub $500.00 cars as projects.
Three years ago they were still easy to find sitting in the back of used car dealerships not even being offered as inventory.
Suddenly the Volkswagon type 914 is a sought after treasure? 
Seems that anything P is inflating all beyond reason.
Maybe I should convince my buddy to go ahead and grab that <$1,000 944?
My favorite Jeremy Clarkson video is still the one where he drops a 911 onto an old travel trailer and burns them both down.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I think that the original post sums it up pretty well.

My perspective after buying a few sub-$10K cars is that a true restoration will cost at least $10K or well over that in DIY man hour equivalent.  Just take a look at the Restoration Cost thread. There are hardly any original cars that didn't develop rust problems due to the design and many examples were considered worthless for a decade or two.

To me, a car that is beyond economical restoration is license to get creative in rebuilding it without concern for originality or value. -I just need to develop the skill set still to support the creativity required.

AAZCD (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

I think that the original post sums it up pretty well.

My perspective after buying a few sub-$10K cars is that a true restoration will cost at least $10K or well over that in DIY man hour equivalent.  Just take a look at the Restoration Cost thread. There are hardly and original cars that didn't develop rust problems due to the design and many examples were considered worthless for a decade or two.

To me, a car that is beyond economical restoration is license to get creative in rebuilding it without concern for originality or value. -I just need to develop the skill set still to support the creativity required.

DIY  man hour equivalent is what Grass Roots  is about.  Let the high end people worry about that. GRM people trade their time to achieve what they want. 
   If they trade originality for greater performance that's for them to chose. 

For some reason air cooled Porsche prices sky rocketed in recent years, even Porsche guys are amazed.  That bubble may have burst as they are coming down a bit.  My '74 2.0 5-speed that I paid $3500 for years ago has coat tailed that rise and is hovering around $8-$10k.  I should sell it now I guess.

Cool cars, is it my first choice if I wanted a Porsche?  No.  First if I wanted an air cooled?  No again.  Fun?  Oh yeah.  

There are draw backs; small frontal area, Porsche guys poo poo us and turn up their nose, wouldn't want to drive it cross country, but none of these reasons are why I bought it.

I actually did drive my 914s cross country years ago. I put a lot of miles on my 914 when I had a girlfriend down in Austin. Today I would rather take the Mustang. The S550 is both faster and rides better. 

I feel the same way about the stupid Porsche market that I do about the stupid housing market in Dallas. I have something that a lot of people want. I'm not interested in selling. Prices are too high to buy another. I am simply not interested in participating in your crazy market or playing your games. Some of those people are so greedy that it scares me.

I'm out.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

People used to call 914s Volkswagens.

Not just 'people', but VW themselves always intended to market them as VW Porsches in Europe. Some bright bulb in the advertising department apparently stood up and said - 'Hey - those Americans are stupid enough that if we call these things Porsches in North America, we can probably sell twice as many of them.'

Interesting write up here  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_914    Gives some idea of the inner relations between VW and Porsche.

I raced against them and the handling was very good. One should be careful with buying used ones today as rust may have taken a toll.  Had two guys locally that raced 914-6s and put on a great show!

The fastest autocross car I ever saw was a VW powered dune buggy. It actually beat some formula cars. 

wspohn said:

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

People used to call 914s Volkswagens.

Not just 'people', but VW themselves always intended to market them as VW Porsches in Europe. Some bright bulb in the advertising department apparently stood up and said - 'Hey - those Americans are stupid enough that if we call these things Porsches in North America, we can probably sell twice as many of them.'

Interesting write up here  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_914    Gives some idea of the inner relations between VW and Porsche.

 

There was an even brighter bulb in the advertising department who called them VoPo's as in Volkswagen Porsches. The VOPO was also the East German secret police.  

In reply to Tom1200 :

 Buy a rust bucket,  cover big holes with cardboard  and bondo.  Smooth it out enough to make patterns. Then build a light square tube frame. (It's stronger and so much easier to connect together than round tube).  Look at a Jaguar XKE's front sub frame.  The steel is thinner than sheat metal and the whole assembly weighs 22 pounds. Holding up a 730 pound cast Iron Engine.  
    Yes, it handles brilliantly. And it passed the Government crash testing!   
   Stuff a air cooled engine in the result and have fun.  I'll bet if you were careful you could get it under 1000 pounds!   

In reply to frenchyd :

I do not wish to have a project, my life is busy enough already. I'd rather spend 10K more on a driver level car.

I live 2 1/2 miles from a National rec area that has 70 miles of lightly traveled twisty two lane road. I want something fun that will trundle along at 50-65 mph (the speed limit is actually 50 mph).

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:them VoPo's as in Volkswagen Porsches. The VOPO was also the East German secret police.  

Or that they made the Porsche Dealers sell Audi in the USA

it was VAG , Volkswagen Audi group in Europe