Help me value a Fiat Spider aka another "should I pull the trigger" thread

I recently looked at a 1979 Fiat Spider 2000. Sorry, no pictures, but I'll do my best.

100k miles

Carbeurated with all the late 70's EPA smog E36 M3.

Engine cranks by hand. Electrics not hooked up but are all there.

No rust on body. Minimal surface rust on suspension parts.

Powertrain was removed recently for a clutch change and not "fully" put back together. It's installed, but nothing hooked up (wiring, plumbing, shifter, clutch pedal, driveshaft).

Brakes work and have good feel.

Supposedly it ran and drove last fall when the clutch repair started. The sketch factor on the seller is actually pretty low and seems like a really nice guy. He has much nicer projects than this in his garage. He bought it from his friend in need before the clutch change was completed and swears it will run and drive once assembled.

All parts to make it run are (theoretically) there. Interior is in okay but complete shape. Top is in good, working shape.

Paint is faded but no rust bubbles anywhere. 1 inch dent on front edge of hood and fender near a headlight.

My goal is simply a high fun/commitment factor. Maybe I'll flip it later, maybe I'll Challenge car it.

After talking him down, he'll take $1200. Is this too much for a non-running 70's Italian?

http://classiccars.com/listings/view/639276/1978-fiat-spider-for-sale-in-lillington-north-carolina-27546

Just to give you a marketplace point of reference. Even the best ones are no more than 10K I don't think $1K is too far off if it's complete.

If its really rust free, sure. But they should have gone ahead and done the timing belt while the engine was pulled (assuming they didn't).

I'd say that's $1000 tops...

You missed a few issue spots you should really look closely at:

1) firewall - any cracks from the throttle cable? That's a PITA to fix.

2) front subframe - any cracks?

3) bottoms of doors - how big are the rust holes - (weather stripping is very poor on these and rain gets in and they literally disintegrate from the bottom up (see my signature and all the repairs I had to do on mine)

4) floor pans around the front seats, pull up the carpet, look underneath, if it's been patched or not you'll be able to tell

5) front inner wheel wells, how rotted are they?

6) Tires?

7) Exhaust?

8) Stock carb, does it need a rebuild?

9) Timing belt

10) Distributor - does it still have mechanical points - upgrade that to electrical before you do anything to save a lot of headaches later

11) Since you can't drive it, transmissions, if you leave it in gear and let off the gas, does it stay in gear or pop out?

12) where are all the leaks coming from?

13) Valve lash and cam wear, take the top covers off and and inspect visually and with a feeler

14) how bad does it smoke (valve stem seals)

15) how bad is the copper core radiator leaking?

These cars are crazy simple to work on but are built with so many pieces they are hard to keep 'together' and in tip top shape for long.

$1000 would be as high as I'd go, but that's because I know some parts aren't cheap to replace, or take a lot of time to do right...

From your description, $1k to $1.2k should be okay, assuming the rust traps Raze mentioned are not eaten up. From my experience, there's not a whole lot of patch panels available meaning either boneyard donors or fabricating from scratch. They are a lot of fun to drive!

Oh, yeah; they tend to wear out front suspension and steering parts pretty quick. Good parts source: http://www.international-auto.com/

I still want one of these. Never driven one, so I don't know if they just look fabulous, or if they drive fabulous also.

https://classicmotorsports.com/articles/drop-top-60s-roadsters/

From a little publication you might have heard about.

The 124 beats out all the other 60's verts.

Everybody should own an Italian car at some point.

However, there is no such a thing as a rust free Fiat, unless it's fresh off the rotisserie.

Seems ok on price for a buddy. Drivers are in the 3-5k range. It wouldn't take much to get to that mark if you're not careful.

That is a good price. Mechanical stuff on a simple old car is easy to fix... Rust is not. And all these cars keep going up and up in value. Jump on it!

I would just say this.. 79 and early 80 are the worst years for performance. You get the bigger engine (good) but low compression (bad) emissions laden carb (bad) and whimpy cams that will not allow the engine to rev (bad). If you are planning on rebuilding the engine for performance, it is a good start.. but left stock..

Raze has much of it right except the car wouldn't have mechanical points. The 2.0 cars all had electronic ignition with a GM ignition module (rarely goes bad) and a easily replaced pickup unit in the distributor (always goes bad-wires corrode over time).

Timing belt on a 2.0 also isn't critical as they are non-interference BUT you have to be careful timing the aux shaft as the fuel pump lobe can contact the #2 connecting rod and break things.

There is a fairly easy intake upgrade that will make it run much better (1800 carb and intake, remove and plug numerous emissions items) but the parts aren't as common as they were 15 years ago when I last played with these cars.

Rust is the bane of any Fiat and if it has none is certainly worth the asking price. Unrusted empty tubs can sell for close to that.

They are nice cars and have good character but honestly...even once being a rabid Fiat fanboi I would buy a cheap Miata these days if my goal were just to drive something. If you want a project though they are fairly easy to work on but you will curse its existence when you go to install the starter bolts.

ddavidv wrote: Raze has much of it right except the car wouldn't have mechanical points. The 2.0 cars all had electronic ignition with a GM ignition module (rarely goes bad) and a easily replaced pickup unit in the distributor (always goes bad-wires corrode over time). Timing belt on a 2.0 also isn't critical as they are non-interference BUT you have to be careful timing the aux shaft as the fuel pump lobe can contact the #2 connecting rod and break things.

That's right I was thinking about the earlier engines, and I forgot about the mechanical fuel pump aux shaft because I switched to an electric fuel pump

If you switch to an electric fuel pump, have the aux shaft pulled and the lobe machined off.

mad_machine wrote: If you switch to an electric fuel pump, have the aux shaft pulled and the lobe machined off.

Why would you want to do this? I am working on a fiat twin can build now and was going to electric fuel pump.

In reply to Lomaxmotorsports:

Apparently the aux shaft lobe, which powers the fuel pump, could interfere with the #2 con rod if it's not timed properly. Shaving it down removes any danger of pump lobe to con rod collision in case the timing belt goes.