Help With My Extremely Obscure Motor

I just finished my first trackday with the Daewoo and ... well, I'm editing the video right now and you'll be seeing it soon.

During the course of my track day it became clear that if it were not for my 100 plus horsepower disadvantage, I would have been challenging for top street legal time of the day. I beat a Kia K5, a race prepped Accent, two 1st gen Tiburons, a VW GTD and one JCW Mini. I lost to several other JCW Minis, a 6th generation VW GTI, a modified Audi S3, a turbo Hyundai I30 and a race prepped Hyundai Avante (Elantra in the US).

So, I want to build a motor but don't know where I should start. The 1.5L DOHC makes 107 hp, so I don't think there's a whole lot to gain with NA mods. I don't want to go turbo with it either, since the oil temps got on the high side of comfortable anyway. This leads me to considering the 2.0L Nubira engine with some mild porting, balance shaft deletes, a bigger sump with baffling. However, I am a huge ignoramous as far as electronics go and would prefer to do a plug and play motorswap. Does anybody know how the 1.5 E-tech and 2.0 E-tech differ besides displacement? Supposedly the 2.0 Nubira motor into a 1.6 Aveo is a near bolt in, but I haven't been able to find Nubira - Nubira swap information.

oil cooler megasquirt turbo done

If I stay under 2.0 liters and NA I can race against stuff like Accents, GTIs and Hondas in the local time attack series. If I go turbo I'm all of a sudden racing against S2000s, Porsches, 500 HP huffed Genesis Coupes and turbo 350Zs.

Hmm that is definitely a problem. Sounds like your under 2.0L NA still bumps your class though. What are your options for mods while staying within your current class?

I'd be willing to bet it's a Mitsubishi morph. Treat it like a Mitsu, and see...

You might also put it an a diet, more than you have. That and stiffening the chassis might get you some speed. Just thinkin' out loud here...You really are in an unknown territory, with the Daewoo. But man, is it cool!

Taiden wrote: Hmm that is definitely a problem. Sounds like your under 2.0L NA still bumps your class though. What are your options for mods while staying within your current class?

1996cc technically.

The rules are pretty simple. Under 2,000 cc NA is TT2, over 2,000 cc or turbo is TT1, crazy widebody dedicated racecars are TT0.

no sr20ve for you then! (1998cc)

Man I dunno. Stick a honda motor in it. Like a GSR with bolt ons, cams and a dyno tune haha.

Is it worth trying to make your way building the 1.5? Dyno tunes can do some really awesome things on some motors.

Mikey52_1 wrote: I'd be willing to bet it's a Mitsubishi morph. Treat it like a Mitsu, and see... You might also put it an a diet, more than you have. That and stiffening the chassis might get you some speed. Just thinkin' out loud here...You really are in an unknown territory, with the Daewoo. But man, is it cool!

It seems to be an Opel E-tech derivative.

That said, it definitely could use more of a diet. Actually, I think the best place to take weight off without ruining it as a street car is the motor itself. The next one won't have AC and it won't have counterbalance shafts. Oh, and I have a highly illegal, bolt it on at the track type exhaust planned that should cut 30 or 40 pounds.

When I post the video you'll see what I'm talking about. The handling was very good and the brake performance was even better. Even on performance-ish all season tires I catch everybody (except for the Avante on slicks and the Hoosiered GTI) in the twisty bits. I just get epically destroyed on the front straight. I kind of picked a bad home track in that sense, 2.5 kilometers long with a 900 meter front straight. Coming out of the hairpin is basically a drag race too.

The really funny thing is that in one of the corners, a long sweeping right hander that dumps onto the main straight, I was foot to the floor the entire time and the car stopped accelerating at about 120 kph because the scrub from the front tires was greater than the engine's power. It wouldn't speed up again until I unwound the lock. That was a first for me.

Another illustration of how underpowered the car now is. I excited the final corner at 120 kph and 900 meters of straight away later I was going ... 153 kph.

Taiden wrote: no sr20ve for you then! (1998cc) Man I dunno. Stick a honda motor in it. Like a GSR with bolt ons, cams and a dyno tune haha. Is it worth trying to make your way building the 1.5? Dyno tunes can do some really awesome things on some motors.

Yah, I would kill for a k20 or b18. But unfortunately I'm poor and this has to be a junkyard motor. Right now I'm thinking about 300 bucks for a locally sourced used motor and another couple hundred on a rebuild kit. Everything else me and the kids can make/modify by hand.

You know, in a lot of ways an engine is an engine, and they all respond in varying degrees to the same things. Get more air in, compress it more, add more fuel and get the spent gasses out and you'll make more power. Whether you go with the 1.5 or the 2.0, I'd look at doing the same mods to it as you would to any other similar engine. It probably won't get you 100hp, but maybe with added lightness and mods to other parts of the car you could get there. I know this isn't much help, but sometimes it helps me when somebody points out the obvious when I'm overthinking things. Not saying that's what your're doing, but just in case...

Good point.

I was going to say, adding lightness at this point would be your biggest ally, I think it may be time to teach your kids how to do fiberglass or carbon fiber layups, replace: hood, trunk, doors, lower your suspension since you now have nifty coilovers (still can't believe you can just get em custom made over there for the price you paid), get some wider stickier tires, beat them in the corners because you're lighter. Power doesn't make a car go fast, it makes a car spin fast if you can't turn it Also, does your trans have a limited slip?

Trying to raise the compression and/or motorcycle throttle bodies/carbs with megaquirt.

Check the throttle body size, and see if there's a similar, but slightly larger one available. Some of those econo motors are so choked up it's not funny. Going from 40-45mm, or 45-50mm will help a lot.

Let me know what motor you go with. I might be able to help you out with a set of cams. They will make a significant difference.

KISS- Keep It Simple for your Students.

Until you get a little farther into their skill set, I would go with the 1996 swap that is a "bolt" in.

And get 2.

First one- dead stock so that your team can understand what it takes to do a basic swap. Even bolt in swaps require some thinking and massaging. But it can be done fairly quickly.

Second one- that's the one you start messing with on the internals. Again- start with the basics- cams, pistons, etc. Maybe throw in some kind of programmable EFI.

Basically, from there, you can build the "other" motor while one is in the car. Since you are working with novices, you already know to budget more time to do things- which is another reason I suggest 2 powertrains- so you can keep the car on the track more, and keep the student's attention.

I do see the point of working with the 1.5 that you have- and if you can put together a strong learning plan with the same kind of steps- that's perfect. But I would still suggest a second powertrain.

Again- since you are working with middle school students- I would suggest modifications that are bolt in, with very little machining- so that they get to do the work.

2.0 swap into a 1.6 Nubira

^ This. US Nubira's got the 2.0L. Should be easy enough to swap.

Go with NAWS!!!

Cut weight. As much as you possibly can.

It improves braking, turning and acceleration. An engine only helps one of those.

Raze wrote: I was going to say, adding lightness at this point would be your biggest ally, I think it may be time to teach your kids how to do fiberglass or carbon fiber layups, replace: hood, trunk, doors, lower your suspension since you now have nifty coilovers (still can't believe you can just get em custom made over there for the price you paid), get some wider stickier tires, beat them in the corners because you're lighter. Power doesn't make a car go fast, it makes a car spin fast if you can't turn it Also, does your trans have a limited slip?

I'd love to learn fiberglass myself, cause I don't know. Fiberglass would allow bigger tires (tiny wheel wells mean I'm maxxed out at 205/50/15 in the front) and some trickiness with the hood. Maybe even try a glass trunk lid. The car has to be street legal for a while longer, so I don't know if I want to rock fiber doors.

No limited slip, but I'm not sure if I need one. Foot to the floor in a second gear (my second gear is good for 53 mph) hairpin causes zero wheel spin. And I shudder at the thought of paying for a custom Daewoo lsd.

Next time out I'm going to try and source some Falken RT615 or equivalent tires, probably 205/50s. But that said, even with the all seasons we were the fastest street tire car out there in the twisties.

alfadriver wrote: KISS- Keep It Simple for your Students. Until you get a little farther into their skill set, I would go with the 1996 swap that is a "bolt" in. And get 2. First one- dead stock so that your team can understand what it takes to do a basic swap. Even bolt in swaps require some thinking and massaging. But it can be done fairly quickly. Second one- that's the one you start messing with on the internals. Again- start with the basics- cams, pistons, etc. Maybe throw in some kind of programmable EFI. Basically, from there, you can build the "other" motor while one is in the car. Since you are working with novices, you already know to budget more time to do things- which is another reason I suggest 2 powertrains- so you can keep the car on the track more, and keep the student's attention. I do see the point of working with the 1.5 that you have- and if you can put together a strong learning plan with the same kind of steps- that's perfect. But I would still suggest a second powertrain. Again- since you are working with middle school students- I would suggest modifications that are bolt in, with very little machining- so that they get to do the work.

How hard is Megasquirt? I ask you this as someone who is absolutely radioactive when it comes to wiring. I can learn, but my level with electronics is very low. Some of my kids are computer wizzes, but there's a language barrier for them.

Right now I'm thinking a junkyard 2.0 with a rebuild, hand ported intake/exhaust manifolds, counterbalance delete, a baffled sump (hand made), a highly illegal, bolt it on at the track exhaust system (straight pipe from the manifold to just in front of the front passenger's side tire), the cold air kit from our current engine, a dyno-tune/reflash and maybe, maybe camshafts.

I agree with you. We will be building the 2.0L while driving the car around on the 1.5L. There's some other, non powertrain related stuff I want to do and there's nothing that stops us from developing the chassis with the 1.5L.

Zomby woof wrote: Check the throttle body size, and see if there's a similar, but slightly larger one available. Some of those econo motors are so choked up it's not funny. Going from 40-45mm, or 45-50mm will help a lot. Let me know what motor you go with. I might be able to help you out with a set of cams. They will make a significant difference.

You seem to be the Daewoo/Asian GM authority around here, so I'l definitely keep you in the loop. Thanks for the link too. I'll be using that alot.

Megasquirt is pretty easy. I did my subaru on all stock sensors without much hassle.

That would be cool. Maybe get some motorcycle ITBs in the future.

MrBenjamonkey wrote: ...The car has to be street legal for a while longer, so I don't know if I want to rock fiber doors...

Even though you don't want to go glass for the doors, you could drop weight by going to lexan side windows as part of a weight loss program.

You can also eliminate the window regulators and go with straps to raise and lower if you haven't already.