Here piggy piggy (tow pig's)

The time has come to replace my old Ram 1500 with a newer machine that can tow more and with any luck get better fuel economy. The Ram performs well enough but has a number of short coming's such as only 11-13 MPG empty with no trailer, rust issue (seven of it's last ten repairs were caused by rust) on everything and everywhere, trans issue (rebuilt once), and with major life changes on the horizon I need to look at something newer and that has more capability.

Requirements:

Tow 9K Lbs. (Loaded enclosed trailer)

Tow said trailer up long and steep roads (most events are held there)

Be able to handle moving items related to automotive/ home improvement task (smallish trailer maybe used depending on selection)

Stable in crosswind (enclosed trailer)

Easy to drive

Cheap to repair with good support of parts and information when things go wrong

Four wheel drive and a 8 foot box would be nice but not a requirement

No diesel, they have great power (had a 12 valve) but after seeing the cost to repair them I will just pass.

Since I am a Mopar guy a heart the easy button for me is a three year old Ram 2500 regular cab which will cost me about $18-$20K, but since I am a cheap a$$ I am willing to think about other options, such as GM "C" and "K" truck platforms (including Tahoe and such) and the "G" cargo van (express)of which I have driven many over the years.

The pick-up truck is the Swiss army knife of every Tom,Dick, and Harry and tend to drive the cost of the truck and insurance up, but will click all the boxes.

The cargo van seems to be geared towards small company's and contractors this is a blessing and a curse as they can live a well maintained lifestyle or live the Hollywood life style "live fast die young and leave a nice corpse" but with a number of them over 300K+ I am not sure were to get in and get out at. This vehicle could be more useful than a pick-up as the cargo is covered and the body is lockable but would limit the height of cargo.

The Tahoe (Avalanche..) class of trucks seem to also hold up well but I am not sure how useful they are and how well they tow overall. I am not ready to write them off but they would require midsize trailer if I decide to go this route.

But what am I not aware of, what else should I be looking at or staying away form, when will the pin fall out of the hand grenade?

Thanks, Paul B

Where did the double space (paragraph space) function go? The preview looked good but the post is all jammed up.

Thanks, Paul.B

Donebrokeit wrote: The Ram performs well enough but has a number of short coming's such as only 11-13 MPG empty with no trailer...

You say that like it's a bad thing. My piggie gets 9 mpg.

My only reccomendation for this job is the same pretty much every time, and one that I did myself after getting tired of diesel maintenance costs: 2500 Suburban LT with the 8.1 liter. 12,000 lbs tow rating, and hauls my 30 foot, 8000+ lb travel trailer with ease all over the place:

Comfy and useful when not towing, too (with the third row removed, it'll haul 4x8 sheets of plywood in the back easily). The 2500 has much heavier duty components than the 1500 version or the Tahoe, and much of the issues of the 1500 series GMT800 trucks are not present (like lousy brakes and weak transmissions)

I tow with a one ton dually with duramax/allison combo and absolutely love it, but I have to say the vortec 454 and 8.1 GM trucks have really impressed me with they're towing ability. The 454 truck would be too old for you, but the 8.1 with allison (or not) is a beast.

Cotton wrote: I tow with a one ton dually with duramax/allison combo and absolutely love it, but I have to say the vortec 454 and 8.1 GM trucks have really impressed me with they're towing ability. The 454 truck would be too old for you, but the 8.1 with allison (or not) is a beast.

I agree with this. I have an LLY Duramax. Increased maintenance costs are mainly fuel filters @ $100 a year. Two gallons of oil, but maybe the big block needs that much too? The Allison is a hoss. I did hit a pothole and have to wheel bearings on one side coincidentally a few months later. Almost 200k miles on this thing and you would never know it -- the body, paint, and interior are still in great shape.

But the big gasser is a much more refined power plant. IFS bits and front wheel bearings on the Chevy require occasional attention.

Towing 9k lbs and towing it comfortably are two different things. Newer half-tons will probably get it done if you only tow occasionally and it's pretty wide open or flat. Stop and go traffic and hilly towing will put a hurting on a 1500 transmission. A half ton is a lot more pleasant to drive on a regular basis.

I tow a 7500 lb tractor on a 2200 lb trailer with my 2008 Silverado 2WD standard cab long bed 2500HD with the 6.0, and other than some funky gear changes it pulls great, even with a 900 dump bed insert in the bed.

Cotton wrote: I tow with a one ton dually with duramax/allison combo and absolutely love it, but I have to say the vortec 454 and 8.1 GM trucks have really impressed me with they're towing ability. The 454 truck would be too old for you, but the 8.1 with allison (or not) is a beast.

My tow rig before the 8.1 Suburban was a turbodiesel 1 ton dually:

Towed like a champ, but when not towing it was an ungainly beast. Hard to park, took up a lot of real estate, and had an uncomfortable ride when empty. it was also a pain to get in and out of the backseat (or get dogs in and out).

Diesel maintenance might not be that much for the newer trucks, but that's offset by the much higher buy-in cost for them vs a gasser like mine (I paid $6500 a few years back for the 'Burban).

I have an LBZ crew cab dually and have loved towing with it over the past 3 years. Very dependable (over 450k miles on it now). I know the rust battles and that is why I flew to Texas to buy this one.

Recently we found our family was expanding, so like Chris above I bought a 2500 Suburban. Very comfortable and my wife is willing to drive it as well (never would have done that with the dually). Haven't towed much with the Suburban but with the 8.1 and 4.10 gears it is rated for 12k lbs. They also made an Avalanche 2500 from 02-06 that has the 8.1. Don't bother looking at Tahoes or even Suburban/Avalanche 1500s. They won't fit your towing requirements. If my wife didn't want the 3rd row seating of the Suburban I would have gotten a 2500 Avalanche in a heartbeat.

If you change your mind on the diesel I have an 06 Silverado 3500 I am selling

I'm curious as to your "no diesel because repair cost" justification. Although you can always get lemons, most diesels are so much more reliable than gas, and they check off way many more of your boxes than gas. Don't forget that if you sell it, you can darn near get your money back. You buy a $20k gas truck and 200k miles later its worth $2000. Buy a diesel truck for $20k and 200k later its worth $10k or more.

Skip 6.0L and 6.4L Strokes, but a Dmax or Cummins (or a unicorn decent condition 7.3 Stroke) would be absolutely perfect. It will be hard to find a 6.7 Stroke in your price range that isn't beat, but it is a wonderful engine, and the 6r transmission is proving to be fantastic. Your trouble with being a Dodge fanatic is the selection of transmissions. Glad to see you're exploring the "dark side" because I think you'll be pleasantly rewarded.

Newer trucks are doing better in the chassis department; meaning that you can get by with a 2500, but I suggest a 1-ton non-dually. As you pointed out, this has nothing to do with peak tow rating, you are towing a billboard. You need chassis stiffness and E-range tires to prevent flipping into a ditch when a truck passes. A 1500 will never do. Sure, 9000 lbs of flatbed you can get away with it, but not TT or enclosed.

Duramax/Allison is the only thing I would really consider in this territory. Go older than 08 or your MPGs will be horrible. They're starting to iron it out, but the DPF kills MPG in the 08-12 trucks. Perfect ones are 06-07; after the lightly troublesome injectors but before DPF. VTN turbo, Allison, massive AAM 11.5" axle, strong brakes, easy maintenance.

I'm in love with my 2001 dmax. Wish I could have bought one sooner, but the $4500 price tag was my kind of deal!

At the same time, I disagree that towing 9k lbs of enclosed trailer requires 3/4 ton or larger or that towing so with a 1/2 ton will instantly lead to a school bus full of small catholic kids dying. Modern half tons are excellent for towing up to their weight ratings, including through the mountains. If you flip into a ditch when a truck passes, you have much bigger issues than towing with a 1/2 ton.

Any 1/2 ton would happily pull your trailer. Saying that, 9K lbs through the mountains, I would stick with a 3/4 ton or better. The GM 8.1 would do this no problem as would the 6.2 V8/6.8 V10 from Ford.

I borrowed a 1 ton Power Stroke Diesel to tow a project, all I can say is WOW!

bentwrench wrote: I borrowed a 1 ton Power Stroke Diesel to tow a project, all I can say is WOW!

I wholeheartedly agree, a diesel will pull oh so much nicer.....but when they go sideways, and they do, the repair costs would make a oil sheikhs eyes water.

I normally do all my own repairs. If you don't turn them up a bunch they hold up well.

The guys blowing up stuff have them turned up on "TILT".

A conservative towing tune makes stuff last, instead of finding the weak parts.

Problem with maintenance and repairs on a lot of newer diesels is that the cab has to come off to make accessibility better, thats a huge PITA. I agree, most of the people having problems buy a diesel, than a cheap e-bay programmer and then crank it up to extreme and leave it there.....

I gave up on one of the diesel forums when I discovered that one of the most popular mods on that forum for the 7.3 PSD was "Disconnect the wastegate vacuum line".

I'm sure it works great...

For a while.

Trans_Maro wrote: I gave up on one of the diesel forums when I discovered that one of the most popular mods on that forum for the 7.3 PSD was "Disconnect the wastegate vacuum line". I'm sure it works great... For a while.

WHAT?!?!?!?!

Fobroader wrote:

Trans_Maro wrote: I gave up on one of the diesel forums when I discovered that one of the most popular mods on that forum for the 7.3 PSD was "Disconnect the wastegate vacuum line". I'm sure it works great... For a while.

WHAT?!?!?!?!

Ummm... actually its incredibly safe. My 95 PSD lived that way for 450k. It took my manifold pressure from 24 to 27 psi. Stop thinking like a gasser. No throttle, no worry of overboost, and the turbos are well-matched. Ford/International put the wastegate on for NOx emissions. In fact, most of the diesels prior to this generation didn't have any boost controls from the factory at all.

HiTempguy wrote: At the same time, I disagree that towing 9k lbs of enclosed trailer requires 3/4 ton or larger or that towing so with a 1/2 ton will instantly lead to a school bus full of small catholic kids dying.

I never said it WILL happen, but the proper tow vehicle for a 9k billboard is a 3/4 ton. If you're just towing 20-30 miles, great. Risk it. Use a Camry. But after 250 miles, if the truck isn't up to the task, you will arrive with white knuckles and wish you had a 3/4. The first time you have a panic stop, have to make an evasive maneuver, or get a strong crosswind, you'll want the 3/4. Millions of people tow too much with a 1/2 ton all their lives and never have to make a panic stop, so they equate that with it being enough truck. The two are completely different. I'm not being a safety-monger, but the OP asked about what truck is best. 3/4 ton. Period. I stand by it.

I won't budge from that opinion since I have probably towed more trailers for more miles than most people. I really know what I'm talking about. Trust me... after longer distances, even 9k of enclosed trailer behind a 3/4 can be a royal pain.

The new 8 speed rams get 18mpg average and 20+ on the highway, real world driving. Nice interiors too. Just saying

I know you guys were just waiting for this pic to reappear

In reply to curtis73:

I'm always surprised at how many people in the land of frivolous lawsuits will tow with equipment that is too small.

I prefer to arrive at my destination relaxed and ready to have fun.

Trans_Maro wrote: In reply to curtis73: I'm always surprised at how many people in the land of frivolous lawsuits will tow with equipment that is too small. I prefer to arrive at my destination relaxed and ready to have fun.

Agreed. Its a lot like seatbelts. I'm 41 and I can honestly say that if I had never worn a seatbelt in a car, I would be fine because I've never been in a serious accident.

But I always wear one.

Same goes with tow pigs for me; I could have towed most of my stuff with a Camaro and never had an accident, but that doesn't mean a Camaro is adequate for towing. It just means I've been lucky.

I learned about inadequate tow equipment the hard way.

I lost a utility trailer in traffic because it was in "good enough" shape.

I had a "fun" towing incident once, hauling a loaded car trailer behind my 1979 IHC Scout.

You haven't lived until you've had 7,000 lbs of trailer toss your short wheelbase tow vehicle around like a toy.

Big heavy truck, long wheelbase, big engine, comfy seats, cold A/C and the best tri-axis brake controller I can find. FTMFW.

One thing about towing, it's not about whether you can haul that trailer down the highway. It's about how quickly you can get underway and up to speed and how quickly you can slow it back down again.

A small, gas v8 isn't going to cut it in today's traffic.