In reply to Vigo (Forum Supporter) :
Say you think of a plate of shrimp...
In reply to Vigo (Forum Supporter) :
Say you think of a plate of shrimp...
mad_machine (Forum Supporter) said:Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:Tyler H (Forum Supporter) said:Is this really the best way to make an environmental impact? How about they look at carbon credits...or maybe get cops to switch off their ignitions instead of letting their patrol cars idle 16 hours a day?
This is left coast political theater.
There's nothing political about it. Research found toxic levels of copper in San Francisco Bay and other bodies of water, ultimately concluding that runoff from brake dust was responsible for 60% of it. Copper is relatively "cheap" as an ingredient in brake pads and most high-end brakes have been copper-free for years. The law was from 2010 and every other supplier managed to get it figured out by now, including the aftermarket. Note that Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini, Shelby, etc can all still sell there cars as normal. GM got caught with their supplier's pants down (again) being cheap.
https://www.hella-pagid.com/hellapagid/assets/media/Copper-free_Brake_Pads_4.2017.pdf
never mind all the boats, ships, and navel vessels with copper bottom paint? Btw, full on copper bottom paint has been off the market for years, but the Navy still has access to it.
The Navy is planning to stop using Type II hull paints (the ones with copper) soon, at least they were as of 2017 or 2018 when I read the article. I can't say I've followed up on the topic (it's not an interesting topic to me), so nut sure if they have made the switchover to non-copper paints yet. But USN is aware of the harm of copper paints. Just takes the government 10x longer than the commercial shipping industry to do anything lol...
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:Wow, California must really hate computers. And houses that have electricity. And pennies- what nerve they have to hate US currency! And... (thinking of more things that have copper in them)
As Pete just posted, if all of those wore down and then deposited in a way that it harmed stuff, yea, they would. But all of those products do not shed copper- they keep it. If they were shedding the copper, they would not be working. Including currency.
Apparently the sarcasm in my post wasn't as obvious as I had hoped.
What a silly story, non-story really.
It seems more likely the copper in the bay is coming from agricultural or industrial sources than from passenger vehicles, far, far more likely.
Do clutch discs have copper in the lining ?
californiamilleghia said:Do clutch discs have copper in the lining ?
That's an interesting thought, one that I had as I considered the copper puck clutch in my RX-7.
However, the number of manual transmission vehicles on the road is vanishingly small, and clutch dust largely stays inside the bellhousing. Many vehicles (Toyota trucks, at least) have the bellhousing sealed to atmosphere, to prevent water from getting in.
The nail in that coffin as far as weighted risks is concerned is that clutch disks just don't throw off all that much friction material. The difference in thickness between new and worn out is remarkably small, whereas brake pads start out at 9-10mm thickness, or more in some cases, and will wear down to the backing plate in 40-50,000mi.
Simply put, clutches spend 99.999% of their per-mile lives not slipping, whereas brake pads spend ALL of their lives slipping, be it during actual braking, or just casually grazing the rotor while the brakes aren't applied.
We exist in an interesting moment where it wasn't too many generations ago that life expectancy was 20 years shorter, yet tons of people in 2020 believe that a lot of the pollution problems we slowly chip away at are no big deal anyway. Kinda like a bunch of our grandmas were married to men who came back from WWII in a time before there was word for PTSD, in the same way we are heirs to a bunch of people who suffered and sometimes died from things we assume deserve no special attentioon because there wasn't strong enough science to draw the connections back then. Our ideas of what is normal and acceptable are partially based on the scientific ignorance of the past, because the past is what we learned was normal. Turns out tons of bad E36 M3 WAS normal, but it doesn't have to stay that way, and when normal is BAD it's important to acknowledge that so you don't become the obstacle to improving it.
In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :
LOL, no it didn't. Sometimed the blurry eyes of the reader misses the obvious sometimes.
Kind of weird, I know the HH sintered pads I have on my motorcycle have a copper hue to them, I must be part of the problem. Heavy metal runoff is some nasty stuff Cu, Ni, Ca, Pb, etc are all things we don't want in the environment, toxic and persistent. The metals get converted to bioavailable type, next thing you are eating mud shark getting high on your own supply.
Vigo (Forum Supporter) said:We exist in an interesting moment where it wasn't too many generations ago that life expectancy was 20 years shorter, yet tons of people in 2020 believe that a lot of the pollution problems we slowly chip away at are no big deal anyway. Kinda like a bunch of our grandmas were married to men who came back from WWII in a time before there was word for PTSD, in the same way we are heirs to a bunch of people who suffered and sometimes died from things we assume deserve no special attentioon because there wasn't strong enough science to draw the connections back then. Our ideas of what is normal and acceptable are partially based on the scientific ignorance of the past, because the past is what we learned was normal. Turns out tons of bad E36 M3 WAS normal, but it doesn't have to stay that way, and when normal is BAD it's important to acknowledge that so you don't become the obstacle to improving it.
True but it has been a number of decades now since asbestos was verified as a hazardous material and eliminated from building insulation and brake pads and such. But we are still seeing ads for the lawyers doing asbestos suits lol
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