How bad are E36 BMWs really?

I've just come across an incredibly cheap 1998 E36 328iS with a 5-speed.

I'm fairly new to the GRM board, but I know that when someone calls something "a piece of E36 M3" that it isn't good...

My question is this, how bad are E36 BMWs, really?

I've always like the way they drive, but it seems that they fall apart cosmetically as they age. Are they truly complete pieces of "E36 M3"?

328IS is a great car. What type of miles are we looking at?

(by the way, it's not "a piece of sht", it's because they "are the sht")

I'd love one....the 318is I had handled like a dream....(might have been the M suspension I threw under it).

but needed more go.

and now I have a family of 5. so the 540 or 740 is on my list

I will just echo and confirm that the meaning is that E36 M3's "are the S---" not that "they are S---"
Overall, it is a highly regarded vehicle.

I had a 97 328is with LSD and it was a brilliant car. I later bought an M3 to split track and DD duties but as a street car only, the 328is was the better choice for northeast roads IMO.

In any case... do the due diligence on checking the engine over for head gasket issues and make a list of what it needs. Cooling system, all rubber bushings... etc. Google is your friend here - most of what applies to M3s will apply to the 328 too. Look for online buyer's guides and read carefully.

I think that the E36 might just be 4th on the list.

1. Miata
2. E30
3. P71
4. E36? Perhaps in a few years as the supply of E30's dwindles, it could even move up the list? (mistanfo now goes off to a dark place to self flagellate as atonement for his possible blasphemy).

I think they're a good candidate for a rat rod since it's a chore to keep them looking nice. I see them looking haggard with cosmetic issues all the time. The interior of the one I had was junky, and the trim was always falling apart inside and out. But the mechanical seem to be standard bmw (good).

FIgure on a cooling system complete overhaul (rad, wp, thermostat & housing) every 60k miles, new control arms & bushings every 85k miles. Other than that, they're solid mechanically its just that the trim tends to fall apart with age and the electronics get a little funky - don't expect the trip computer display to completely work, or the dash display, or the radio...

Depending on how cheap, early high mileage E46 cars are in the $5-6k or less neighborhood now and better cars in every way except weight.

...and handling. and e36's can be found with lsd. no such luck with e46's unless you step up to the m3, which is in a whole different price bracket.

why no means exhaustive or complete... the following problems creep on e36s.. most of which are cosmetic, but easily repaired

Drivetrain- Cooling system. Radiator and thermostate are of plastic and get brittle with age and break. Impeller on the waterpump is the same. All can be replaced with metal parts for more money than stock.

Cooling fan. This can shatter and destroy the radiator and possibly your hood and waterpump. Usually caused by bad engine mounts allowing it to hit the shroud. Upgrade to an electric fan to free up hp and make the car more reliable.

Driveshaft donut of "guibo" the rubber donut gets old with age and can shred.. all cars that use this design have this problem. it is a maintance issue

High powered cars can rip their differential out of the trunk floor.. there are repair and reinforcement kits.. but they are expensive unless you can do the welding yourself

Nickocel (mispelled?) engines can use a lot of oil before failing. most were replaced under warrenty

Vanos. The valve timing dohicky on the top of the head can die due to bad (old) oil and failing seals.

interior.

Headliner can and will fall down. harder to replace on the coupes than the sedans and hatchbacks.. but still not a pig of a job. Upgrade the gray to black for a nice look

Door cards. The Leather will bubble and pop off from the centre. Fabric is a better choice if you can find it

Windows. The plastic slides stick and break, dropping the glass into the door. I take mine apart every year, clean out the old grease, and relube them. No problems

Sunroofs have some brittle plastic parts.. usually involving the tilt function. The lifting blocks and the part that slides the inner cover back can break.

Pixels. The displays for the on board computer, odometer, and radio can and die horrid deaths. they can be repaired if you are good with electronics.

Suspension.

The "lollipop" bushings in the front control a lot and lead hard lives. Usually when they go though, they do not leave you stranded.. just with really sloppy handling. Mine literally fell apart in my hands, but the car was still driveable.

Rear control arms are easily damaged.. especially if the car has been towed (they make convient tie down points to people who do not know better) but are easily repaired.

rear upper shock mounts. They go bad and will result in a "thunk" when you go over bumps. upgrade to e46 convertable mounts for a cheap oem fix.. or go all out for heavyduty aftermarket

Generally though, except for the cooling system, nothing on this list is more than an annoyance and will not leave you on the side of the road. 90% can be repaired DIY if you are handy with tools.

They are great cars, easy to work on, easy to drive and easy to drive fast and hard. The E46 is basically a heavier version of the E36.

They also do not have the rust issues of the e30. BMW got that part very well sorted

mistanfo wrote: I think that the E36 might just be 4th on the list. 1. Miata 2. E30 3. P71 4. E36? Perhaps in a few years as the supply of E30's dwindles, it could even move up the list? (mistanfo now goes off to a dark place to self flagellate as atonement for his possible blasphemy).

No flagellation necessary - I'd put it at 1 or 2 right now and the decision is really not is the miata or the E36 better - its "Do I need more speed and room or am I looking for THE roadster".

It defies me how the P71 makes any enthusiast list at all but to each his own. I have many odd things that bring me joy.

Many, many E36 cars have fallen into the hands of non-enthusiast owners. Beware of these cars, as they usually have deferred maintenance issues. If properly taken care of, they are great cars, and even the interiors can hold up well. Chances are if the interior is nice, and everything works as it should, than the P.O. has had the good sense to stay on top of routine maintenance. 12 years on, my E36 interior still looks nice, and all of the electronics work perfectly. (yes, even the trip computer)

Also, although it is a good idea to replace the cooling system, or at least keep on top of it, mine went over 100K miles with no issues, and was not in need of repair.......until that damn raccoon decided to commit suicide in front of my car at 85mph.

Good luck! They are great all-around cars as long as they have had proper care and feeding.

Well, I certainly put the Miata and E36 at the top of the GRM list of awesome .

Seriously though, I love my '98 328i. There are a lot of things you need to be aware of before you get into them. Mad Machine did a pretty good job going through them. Basically if you are going to buy one, budget $1000-1500 to make it reliable and fully awesome again. I would do everything I list in the first 2 steps unless you have recent reciepts for it when you buy the car (if it's cheap, I guarantee you won't).

Step 1. Replace EVERYTHING rubber on the car - (front control arm bushings, rear trailing arm bushings, driveshaft guibo, transmission mounts, rear shock mounts, and subframe bushings if possible), this will cost around $250-400 depending if you do the subframe. It's a million percent worth it. I also replaced the front control arms (for the balljoints), tie rods, and installed Koni shocks, Koni sport springs, UUC swaybars and new swaybar endlinks at the same time. This is overkill if you are on a budget, but I would highly recommend replacing at least the shocks if they are worn with new units from Koni, Bilstein, or BOGE. PM me if you want my recommendations for vendors for all these parts.

Step 2. Replace the ENTIRE cooling system. Get this kit from Bimmerzone and DO IT! LINK This is nowhere near as bad as it sounds, it took me about 3 hours, and some of that was going to a bike shop to get a thin 32mm wrench to get the fan off. I actually didn't replace my expansion tank when I did it because I didn't know about that kit (or it may not have existed, it was 2.5 years ago). You can get a kit from Bimmerworld that has everything but the expansion tank for $40 less, but it's cheap insurance to just do it all IMO.

Step 3. Miscellaneous crap (some may be optional). Replace the fuel filter. Do the brakes if necessary, take the front calipers out and grease the slide pins (they all need this). If you value being able to see at night, get a set of Euro headlights with an HID kit, they are stupid cheap these days: Link. Rebuild the shift linkage if yours is floppy. I bought all the parts to do this on mine at least a year ago, but haven't got around to actually doing it.

Overall, these cars are way more fun than their specs would indicate. The M52 is a SMOOOOTH, torquey motor that is happy pretty much anywhere in the rev range, the car handles FAR better than it should for its weight, it still looks good even after all this time, it EATS highway miles like nothing else I have driven, you can fit 4 adults in it in a pinch, and the squeamishness of regular folks about repairing/maintaining them means you can get a lot of car for little money. Go for it!

Josh wrote: Overall, these cars are way more fun than their specs would indicate. The M52 is a SMOOOOTH, torquey motor that is happy pretty much anywhere in the rev range, the car handles FAR better than it should for its weight, it still looks good even after all this time, it EATS highway miles like nothing else I have driven, you can fit 4 adults in it in a pinch, and the squeamishness of regular folks about repairing/maintaining them means you can get a lot of car for little money. Go for it!

Interesting, but everything you said (other than the engine designation, lol!) applies perfectly to the E38 7 series, as well. I've said pretty much the exact same thing about my car...

I like me some 7 series too (see the Benz thread , but I think mine is a little more fun to autocross, and I don't know if I could go SO far into luxoboat territory as a 740. Being used to autocross modded econoboxes and Miatas, I feel like the E36 is about as cushy as I'll ever want, although others with more normal car histories may disagree. I do keep telling my dad he needs an E38 though .

I drove several E36's and an E34, E38 and E39 before purchasing my last car. The E36's are the most fun and best handling of the bunch, and I bought an M3. The torque is great around town, and even bone stock is very at home at the autocross. The E34 is very comparable to my wife's E39, with better steering feel but a bit less refinement in every department. The E38 had more rear leg room but was let down by its soft, wallowy suspension and too many electronic features. it also really wasn't any faster or nicer than a five series of similar vintage.

nderwater wrote: I drove several E36's and an E34, E38 and E39 before purchasing my last car. The E36's are the most fun and best handling of the bunch, and I bought an M3. The torque is great around town, and even bone stock is very at home at the autocross. The E34 is very comparable to my wife's E39, with better steering feel but a bit less refinement in every department. The E38 had more rear leg room but was let down by its soft, wallowy suspension and too many electronic features. it also really wasn't any faster or nicer than a five series of similar vintage.

You guys need to drive 7s with Bilsteins and H&R springs. Or even just a good (not worn out) stock sport version. Wallowy is not a term I'd use to describe them (trust me, after 30 years of autocross cars and also having had some real domestic boats, I know which end of the scale they fall on).

http://www.midatlantic7s.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=77&g2_serialNumber=1

http://www.midatlantic7s.com/?page_id=10&g2_itemId=65

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uddWNRTBGf0

walterj wrote: It defies me how the P71 makes any enthusiast list at all but to each his own. I have many odd things that bring me joy.

I agree as well. I think many of us do also... They're good reliable beaters, that is it...

I believe that right now that a v8 rwd car is somewhat of a novelty so I think that is where the connection lies. I also believe that there are tons of these things becoming obsolete @ police agencies right now. In a few years when the glut of very cheap ones dries up, they'll go back to being un noticed while the rest of the cars on that list will still be sought after as good driving fun cars.

edit: I forgot to add that as the place that dosen't discrimiate against cars... we need to be open to them though..

PorschesOnTheCheap wrote: I've just come across an incredibly cheap 1998 E36 328iS with a 5-speed. I'm fairly new to the GRM board, but I know that when someone calls something "a piece of E36 M3" that it isn't good... My question is this, how bad are E36 BMWs, really? I've always like the way they drive, but it seems that they fall apart cosmetically as they age. Are they truly complete pieces of "E36 M3"?

No worries. We aren't calling things a piece of "E36 M3." That is the board software censoring us.

If we type the "s" word, the software replaces it with "E36 M3". Here is a string of obscenities and let's see if the software replaces it. Its not a commentary on the E36, just a comical replacement word.

sh = E36 M3

fu = berkeley

f'ing = berkeleying

the "a" word meaning butt = ass

penis = dick

So sometimes you might see something like holy E36 M3 I can't get the berkeleying door open. Now you know why.

Ok, so I guess you can say ass and dick.

a' hole= shiny happy person

p*ssy= Bob Costas

"C" word= vajajay

might be more, but i have no motivation to use bad words for the fun of it

vajajay Bob Costas shiny happy person

How bad is the E36? I'd rather drive a pair of Hyundai's. Wait, I would anyway. Never mind.

Chris_V wrote: You guys need to drive 7s with Bilsteins and H&R springs. Or even just a good (not worn out) stock sport version. Wallowy is not a term I'd use to describe them (trust me, after 30 years of autocross cars and also having had some real domestic boats, I know which end of the scale they fall on).

(You're right, I've not driven an E38 with a tuned suspension) My experience with how much improvement these parts make to E30 and E36 chassis cars makes me wonder why Bilsteins, H&R's & Eibach swaybars aren't a BMW factory option package.

I have PSS9s on my Ti.. made a HUGE difference in how the bobtailed bimmer handles