How can I insure a modified car "properly"? Potential Porsche content

"Properly" in this case meaning "with all modifications so they're covered, too".

Our insurance - the good neighborly one - really doesn't seem to like underwriting insurance for cars that are modified and declared as such. It was a huge pain to get the modded Talon insured with the mods declared and I'm not sure that I want to go through this with the Miata once I bolted on the s/c.

The only time I brought up the subject of modified cars, I got the distinct impression that they'd rather if I took my modded car business elsewhere. Given that my cars at the moment aren't really modified that much, if at all, that didn't bother but now I have found a P-Car that is quite heavily modified and needs all the modifications insured.

I'm pretty sure that I can call up Hagerty and have them insure it as it's both old and modified enough, but I would like to be able to use it as more of a daily driver, which I couldn't with Hagerty.

So, is there any insurer out there that has both decent service and is willing to insure a modded car for semi-daily use? I'd happily join PCA if they have an insurer who deals with this sort of stuff, I also have to look if SCCA has any deals going on with an insurer but I'm all ears as to who people here are using.

Oh, and the "mild mods" on the Porsche I have an eye on? Someone with reasonably deep pockets has had a shop build him something that Porsche never offered - an AWD 965. For some odd reason I'm not that interested in having it insured as the car it used to be (a 964 C4) because of its additional value and cost in case, say, it gets stolen.

Get it appraised with the mods included in the value perhaps? It's what I did when I brought my FC back from the dead and used it as my DD.

Getting it appraised is probably a very good starting point although I'm not sure how "good" that appraisal would be as there are only a handful of 964s around with that modification.

However given the horror stories of people who declared their modifications, paid extra for it only to have the insurance turn around in the case of a claim and go "berk you, we're only paying for the standard parts even though we took your money", I'd like to make sure I have coverage for when Mr SUV bangs up the front fender without me having to have a massive lawyerly argument with the insurance as to why they have to bolt on an even more expensive 965 fender instead of the 964 fender they'd want to pay for.

I don't know how old your car is but there are insurance companies that insure custom cars.

Heacock

Hagerty

Hagerty was already mentioned in the original post . The car's a 1990, by the way.

We're already Hagerty customers for some of my bikes, but their policies usually come with some usage restrictions so using a car they insure as a semi-DD is not in the spirit of their policy. I'll have to look if Heacock has similar restrictions.

Buy a second odometer?

Honestly, I'd get an appraisal, then look into Stated Value policies. Some insurace companies will agree to them, some wont.

Following this thread closely for Escort/Miata purposes.

My wife owns an insurance agency and she writes a lot of specialty policies. There is a difference between "agreed value" and "stated value." Agreed value is where you put a price on it (insurance is done at, say $1 per $100 of value) and the underwriters accept that up front or challenge and ask for receipts, etc. But the key is that the value is agreed at the beginning. Stated value you can have an appraisal, etc but at time of claim they can balk and say the market's different, etc. Could be a nasty surprise for those that don't pay attention.

There are policied for "stock" cars and "modified" cars. She's got everything from new Corvettes to T-buckets covered under specialty policies. Even our Z3 and Celica have them.

Specialty policies have two big universals: Has to be kept in a locked building and not a DD. She does have one company that will do a limited DD clause for an additional premium, but it's not a bad deal if you want to drive to work occasionally.

If you're already a Hagerty customer, drop them a line and ask about it.

Otherwise, get an insurance broker. Not someone who works for a particular company, but someone who will work for you. They'll know of insurers that don't have big shiny commercials and CGI geckos and who will be able to help you out. As a bonus, you'll probably save money.

There's a bonus to this. If it all goes wrong, you'll have someone who is actually "on your side".

The state of Wisconsin can title a car as a "Hobbyist". If Nevada has something similar, that should give you a little added benefit of have the state on your side that it was no longer stock and is modified.

They don't have special titles for those here, you can register them as "classic rod" if they're over 20 years old but that mainly gets you out of emissions testing for low-use vehicles. Which doesn't really apply to me anyway as I live in an area that doesn't do emissions testing.

MIght be time to have a look around for an independent insurance agent to see if they can dig up something, but I guess I'll talk to Hagerty first.

I'd love to find something like that ... of course the CRX isn't worth anywhere near what the P-car is ... and all I'd want covered would be when it's going to and from events ... sometimes being towed and sometimes being driven ... as a '91, any damage would probably total it .. a policy with an agreed upon value would be great ( ~ value is $4000) but it lives outdoors, so Hagerty is out ...

how 'bout it glueguy ? your wife do anything in this case ( my ins co won't do agreed value )

glueguy wrote: My wife owns an insurance agency and she writes a lot of specialty policies.

Sounds like a canoe we actually need floating down the GRM stream.

Can she write policies in any state? If so I seriously would be interested in contacting her about a policy on my MG and my 1954 Willy's pickup. The MG is .. Special.. as is the Willy's. The Willy's is currently with Hagerty but I really want to find some policy that lets me use it more like a real vehicle and use it to tow a small trailer and drive to work.

Seriously surprised there isn't a Regular contributer on here that is involved in Insurance and Markets it..

Keith Tanner wrote: Otherwise, get an insurance broker. Not someone who works for a particular company, but someone who will work for you. There's a bonus to this. If it all goes wrong, you'll have someone who is actually "on your side".

I'd agree that independent agents or brokers are useful in saving but in my time as an adjuster they have never had any impact on the resolution of a claim. They can call and get updates or help speed things up by being a sqeaky wheel however coverage decisions and settlements are based on policy and appraisals/estimates. Bodily injury is a bit different.

As for the original poster I have had good luck with grundy. No mileage restrictions however no collectors or agreed value policy I have seen wants it to be any type of semi DD.

wbjones, the problem is the inside/outside storage. She represents Hagerty and a couple others and they are all the same on this. The rates are so much lower for specialty, and one of the reasons is the security that comes with inside storage. The other is that when it is not allowed to be a DD, you are not on the roads to get hit when traffic is at the worst. There are some that will allow unlimited miles, just don't be driving it to work.

She does cars at that value and lower. I would estimate that a year of full coverage for that would be $250. She has people that rent storage units to satisfy the need for locked and enclosed because the difference in rate supports it. The one thing that she does preach is to not be shady. The policy is a contract, and you have to uphold your end. She (and you) want insurance to be there when you need it. Nothing ruins her day more than when one of her customers (regular or specialty) has the ins. co. deny a claim because of something the policy holder did to circumvent the rules. Oh, you forgot to mention that your child with a DUI lives in your house and drives the car?......

All that being said, she can only write in our home state, but I can get referrals to agents in other areas if you want to pursue this.

nocones wrote:

glueguy wrote: My wife owns an insurance agency and she writes a lot of specialty policies.

Sounds like a canoe we actually need floating down the GRM stream. Can she write policies in any state?

I try to be careful with this because I don't want to float, and the fact that she can only write in FL I think helps it be more information than solictation. She can forward info to the home office to get an agent in your state to work with.

I'll pm you about something else you'll be interested in.

Greg Voth wrote: however no collectors or agreed value policy I have seen wants it to be any type of semi DD.

There is one. It wasn't information that was easy to come by, but it is a company that writes (AFAIK) in all states.

We have one car that we're going to add this rider to the policy soon to see how it works out and get some firsthand experience.

Greg Voth wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Otherwise, get an insurance broker. Not someone who works for a particular company, but someone who will work for you. There's a bonus to this. If it all goes wrong, you'll have someone who is actually "on your side".

I'd agree that independent agents or brokers are useful in saving but in my time as an adjuster they have never had any impact on the resolution of a claim. They can call and get updates or help speed things up by being a sqeaky wheel however coverage decisions and settlements are based on policy and appraisals/estimates. Bodily injury is a bit different. As for the original poster I have had good luck with grundy. No mileage restrictions however no collectors or agreed value policy I have seen wants it to be any type of semi DD.

The thing is that most of us don't deal with making claims on a regular basis. A broker does. And I have seen firsthand a major insurance company playing dirty pool to limit their payout - making a serious lowball offer and giving an extraordinarily short period to contest it. The poor girl who had just written off her car was still mentally dealing with the fact that she'd had an accident. I simply don't trust insurance companies to play fair when it comes time to pay money.

Meanwhile, we have an independent insurance broker in the family and the difference in the experience is dramatic. That "squeaky wheel" aspect is difficult to overstate, along with having someone who can say "that's just a first offer, we'll show them these appraisals and they'll actually pay for the car".

A coworker recently changed from one of the major companies to my broker. By doing nothing more than making a phone call and providing his info, he managed to add house insurance and an extra car to his policy without increasing his premiums. When I got my M5 and my current company didn't want to deal with it, she sorted things out for me. It's nice having a pro take care of things.

BoxheadTim wrote: Oh, and the "mild mods" on the Porsche I have an eye on? Someone with reasonably deep pockets has had a shop build him something that Porsche never offered - an AWD 965.

I can't help on the insurance question, but DO WANT details on the car itself! I understand if you don't want to share too many details, prior to purchase, but, having been in a few 964 turbos, I'd love to hear about an AWD version! How was it converted? Pics? Please share!

Oh I agree that having someone with claims experience is helpful. I can honestly only think of one time where I was instructed to offer what I felt was an significant lowball offer.

I am in a unique position working as a third party for other companies not directly for a company. In most claims I get input on payment recomendations but am often not privy on what the final settlement is.

Edit: Shady deals do exist. A family friend was hit head on, both insured by the same large company. The offer on the car (7 weeks after the accident) floored me.

was it ever resolved to your and your family friends satisfaction

Nothing wrong with independent agents, I used to work for an insurance company that sold through them. But don't shy away from the bigger companies too. Check out any smaller company you haven't heard of carefully and read the policy carefully.

Also, and I can't say this enough...agents often don't understand claims. They're in the business of selling policies, not settling claims. There are some who do understand it, but many don't. Every week, I deal with agents who are trying to help their customer, but just don't understand what the policy covers and doesn't.

Boxhead, agreed value is really the only way to go for what you describe. Shop around, find someone who'll give you agreed value and let you drive.

wbjones wrote: was it ever resolved to your and your family friends satisfaction

Not really. Basically they got an initial offer of $1600 on a $3500-$4000 dollar car. (2002 Sebring vert). Based on their total loss valuation the car was worth about $3600 but they knocked off $800 as a dealer reconditioning fee, another 800 since it was a jx model not a jxi, another several hundred for "high" mileage (135,000) and some more for a broken mirror and dirty interior (the car went into a ditch and was filled with the accident debris).

I provided some market research to them from their area dealers which put the car above $4000. I think they eventually settled at $2500 in a take it or leave it type deal.

Funny thing is they are arguing over a couple grand when she has bleeding on the brain and about 60,000 in doctors bills. The other party only had 20000 limit so she has a pending underinsured claim for which she has now retained counsel after some more run around.

Greg Voth wrote:

wbjones wrote: was it ever resolved to your and your family friends satisfaction

Not really. Basically they got an initial offer of $1600 on a $3500-$4000 dollar car. (2002 Sebring vert). Based on their total loss valuation the car was worth about $3600 but they knocked off $800 as a dealer reconditioning fee, another 800 since it was a jx model not a jxi, another several hundred for "high" mileage (135,000) and some more for a broken mirror and dirty interior (the car went into a ditch and was filled with the accident debris). I provided some market research to them from their area dealers which put the car above $4000. I think they eventually settled at $2500 in a take it or leave it type deal. Funny thing is they are arguing over a couple grand when she has bleeding on the brain and about 60,000 in doctors bills. The other party only had 20000 limit so she has a pending underinsured claim for which she has now retained counsel after some more run around.

Uh...care to share who that offending party is? That sounds like a company I don't much want to deal with...

I guess I would need to ask what your budget is for this? You gotta pay to play. My MGB is on an agreed value policy for just this reason with my regular insurance company. I can drive it anywhere any time. Looking at $800/year.

If you are trying to pull this off for the same dinero as you would pay for Hagerty collector insurance, good luck and keep us posted.

Kinda sucked last year because I dont think I put much over 200 miles on it!