How do i put this all together? (Suspension content)

Alright, so i think i've finished piecing together the next round of stuff for the red MX6, and through a year of searching for parts that fit, the best deals, and just generally getting irritated, i think i've finally got a set up here that will work, work well, and depending on what sort of crazy E36 M3 i may or may not have to do to it, may end up bringing money back out of my current budget.

SO.

How does this stuff go together? I gathered that the zinc plated sleeve things go into the pillowball. What's the other stuff? I have:

1) Two spacer looking things (above the 3-sided plates)
2) 4 weird acorn nut looking things, they have a hole in them, but they're not round?
3) two more sleeve things (aluminum) with smaller threaded internal size. Guessing these are for a different style of shock.

How are the top plates on the GC setup located in the mount?

Seems maybe i should have taken better pictures of the setup on the Escort before i installed it.

pic of the bottom of the camber plates please.

Oh yeah, i forgot, sorry 'bout that.

Bumpy!

I know this will sound like heresy, but have you called GC?

They have always been very helpful when I had my E30s.

I thought about it, but that seemed a little rude to me, since those aren't their camber plates, and the GC setup is every bit of 20 years old.

You're going to need some kind of bearings for the front to allow it to turn without binding. GC plates come with a needle bearing to allow such movement, and it doesn't look like your plates have such a thing.

Where would i buy such a thing and how would they be attached?

Swank Force One wrote: I thought about it, but that seemed a little rude to me, since those aren't their camber plates, and the GC setup is every bit of 20 years old.

Wouldn't stop a Miata owner...

There are bearings in those upper mounts, but they're spherical instead of roller - which makes sense. The angle of the strut has to be able to change with suspension movement, and a roller won't do that.

Keith Tanner wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: I thought about it, but that seemed a little rude to me, since those aren't their camber plates, and the GC setup is every bit of 20 years old.

Wouldn't stop a Miata owner... There are bearings in those upper mounts, but they're spherical instead of roller - which makes sense. The angle of the strut has to be able to change with suspension movement, and a roller won't do that.

I try not to be the stereotypical Miata owners, despite owning two of them.

Yeah, i should have clarified that there are sphericals in the plates.

Where i get confused with what Dave said (probably mostly because the actual mechanics of stuff like this is often over my head) is that the factory upper mounts have a needle bearing of sorts in them.

I wouldn't have thought to think about that with these, though. I think my biggest concern was "How do i keep the GC assemblies from sliding around on the bottom of the mounts?"

Unless i'm looking at an issue secondary to something bigger that i'm missing. Very possible.

http://www.shosource.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=61_3_33&products_id=119

These work btw, I've got them on my '91.

Oh wait... the shock shaft should keep the top portion centered. DUH. Holy crap i feel dumb.

So really... i just need to make sure that the shafts fit properly through both the GC assembly and the upper mount using the appropriate top sleeve/nut.

In reply to Swank Force One:

Yep, the linky I posted is to prevent the tophats wearing on the front plates due to camber/castor.

beware of those camber plates, the spherical joints aren't well made and tend to bind a bit. Keep them lubricated and plan on replacing them at some point with better versions.

Also, those same camber plates on my 924 reduced suspension travel by upwards of an 1-1/2" because the joint is mounted below the strut mounting plate. IF they had machined those so that the majority of the joint was located above the strut plate it would have helped immensely.

I only mention this because I know you like to run the car low and as a cautionary note I say that struts/shocks don't work well or last too long when run completely compressed, plus the spring rate is usually around infinity when this happens. IF the struts you're using have significantly shorter shafts, then you'll probably be okay, if not then perhaps you might look at machining the tops of the strut shafts slightly shorter to compensate (mount the strut/shaft in a lathe and grind the shaft back and then thread it, beware of creating stress risers).

I also recommend the coil spring thrust bearings to help reduce coil bind and for $20/pr. it can't hurt to try.

Good luck!

You're using coil bind in an usual way. Usually, it means the spring has run out of travel and turns into a solid tube. Great if you like self-disassembling suspension.

The thrust bearings you're talking about will make it easier to adjust the suspension if there's a significant amount of preload, but that's about all they'll do. Won't do anything once the car is moving.

GC plates use a spherical bearing to locate the shaft, and a needle bearing plate to take the weight of the vehicle. That reduces wear on the spherical bearing dramatically.

Yeah these plates are pretty awful. The 4 stud pair looks way better than the other, though.

They were challenge friendly though. Neither is for an mx6, I view them as temporary, I just wanted to test these before I spent the next year trying to track down used quality units for cheap.

How do I know which thrust bearings to buy? Obviously take measurements, then....?

Oof ok. I need to do some reading and mocking upI think, as well as looking at the escort. I'm getting confused again.

Ah, makes sense Dave. I don't spend a lot of time with struts, of course, although I did alter the upper mounts on my GTX to get the numbers I wanted.

For the thrust bearings, you just need the spring diameter.

Spring diameter or the diameter of the top "cap" area that will be in contact with the plate?

Keith Tanner wrote: You're using coil bind in an usual way. Usually, it means the spring has run out of travel and turns into a solid tube. Great if you like self-disassembling suspension. The thrust bearings you're talking about will make it easier to adjust the suspension if there's a significant amount of preload, but that's about all they'll do. Won't do anything once the car is moving.

Understood. I didn't mean to cause any confusion. However if you look at how a strut-based suspension system "works" you'll see that those bearings will reduce steering effort by reducing the binding inherent in the suspension. It doesn't matter where it is located in the stack. The thrust bearing can be at the top between the top hat and the spherical bearing or down with the spring, under the top hat.

Swank Force One wrote: Oof ok. I need to do some reading and mocking upI think, as well as looking at the escort. I'm getting confused again.

DUDE! Dude! Duuuude......

Breathe. Its pretty simple. Just stack the parts up to build a strut assembly, set the springs at the top of the adjustment range, install the assembly and determine how much lower the car needs to go. Raise car, adjust spring perches lower by the measured amount and then fine tune the spring adjustments by using a set of scales to try and balance the weight side to side and front to rear.

Final step is to align the car, though you may need to repeat the last two steps a couple of times since the stupid strut-based suspension changes the toe/camber and caster as ride height changes.

turboswede wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: You're using coil bind in an usual way. Usually, it means the spring has run out of travel and turns into a solid tube. Great if you like self-disassembling suspension. The thrust bearings you're talking about will make it easier to adjust the suspension if there's a significant amount of preload, but that's about all they'll do. Won't do anything once the car is moving.

Understood. I didn't mean to cause any confusion. However if you look at how a strut-based suspension system "works" you'll see that those bearings will reduce steering effort by reducing the binding inherent in the suspension. It doesn't matter where it is located in the stack. The thrust bearing can be at the top between the top hat and the spherical bearing or down with the spring, under the top hat.

I'm not sure how. The spring should be turning with the strut as well as both top and bottom spring mounts. Where's the relative movement? I'm missing something.

Keith Tanner wrote:

turboswede wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: You're using coil bind in an usual way. Usually, it means the spring has run out of travel and turns into a solid tube. Great if you like self-disassembling suspension. The thrust bearings you're talking about will make it easier to adjust the suspension if there's a significant amount of preload, but that's about all they'll do. Won't do anything once the car is moving.

Understood. I didn't mean to cause any confusion. However if you look at how a strut-based suspension system "works" you'll see that those bearings will reduce steering effort by reducing the binding inherent in the suspension. It doesn't matter where it is located in the stack. The thrust bearing can be at the top between the top hat and the spherical bearing or down with the spring, under the top hat.

I'm not sure how. The spring should be turning with the strut as well as both top and bottom spring mounts. Where's the relative movement? I'm missing something.

Oh dangit, you're right. Great, now I'm getting confused. I blame Ben.

I blame him too. Just on general principles.