How is the 3.0 Duramax?

So, I might be in the market for a new truck on the future. As a general rule I stick to old and proven stuff but this application probably calls for a new truck.

It's gonna be a lot of miles and probably towing a small trailer, under 4k. Originally I was thinking Maverick but I'm wondering if I should shoot towards something that isn't on the ragged edge of what it can tow and I started looking into the baby Duramax. Some of the MPG numbers seem insane to me, 40mpg if babied even and 15mpg at 10k lbs sounds good to me.

Anyone have any real world experience with these?

What do they come in? 

In reply to Antihero :

Fairly recent release on these if I’m remembering correctly.  What about the turbo 2.7 4 cylinder? We’ve got three Silverado pick ups in our fleet with this engine now and they’ve been good so far.

11GTCS said:

In reply to Antihero :

Fairly recent release on these if I’m remembering correctly.  What about the turbo 2.7 4 cylinder? We’ve got three Silverado pick ups in our fleet with this engine now and they’ve been good so far.

At a certain point I'll probably ask about every combo really.

I have no idea what I'm looking for except a double cab truck with a backseat for our Yeti dog

I've been really impressed by my friend's '17 F150 SuperCrew with the 2.7 Ecoboost. Plenty of power, and good mileage if you're not heavy on the throttle.

Watching this one as I like the idea of the 3.0 Duramax straight 6 diesel but was burned badly by the 3.0 liter ecodiesel Grand Cherokee so I'm a bit gun shy.  The price delta between gasoline and diesel is still huge around here so that tamps down my interest a bit as well.  

IMO there's a very narrow use case where the small diesels really make sense. Otherwise the fuel economy is offset by high diesel prices and purchase price and they're not really any more capable then the gas engines (actually probably slightly less capable because the engine is heavy which reduces payload capacity). Ford discontinued their small diesel in favor of the Ecoboost hybrid.

When a 3.5 Ecoboost make 400hp and 450 ft/lbs and gets 21 MPG on cheaper fuel...its tough to say that the diesel is a better option.

Let me preface this by saying I'm a GM tech. The 3.0L diesel seems to be a very good engine so far. No major reliability woes, it's punchy and it's pretty smooth and quiet once underway. In fact, when I've driven them, you kind of forget it's a diesel.

The 2.7T 4-cylinder is also, so far, a pretty terrific engine. Again very smooth and pretty gutsy. It's a complex engine, but we've seen absolutely zero major failures out of them so far.

As for the gas V8s, the 5.3L and 6.2L, well, I'd recommend you avoid them the valvetrain is known to fly to pieces before the first oil change. The oil cooler lines are very commonly known to blow apart before 30k and wipe out engines. Now GM just changed a supplier for bearings and we're seeing bearing failures en masse. I had a 6.2L with 12k miles that spun and stacked a rod bearing at 12k miles for no discernable reason, a d we have another 6.2L that completely wiped the crank bearings before 200 miles. Yeah.

I have a close friend who was all over New England and Quebec towing with his baby duramax this past summer and has no complaints. My father also has one and the fuel mileage it can knock out is really really impressive. Neither have had any issues related to the diesel. Just regular oil changes and occasionally a drink of def to keep them rolling. 

Using today's national average prices you would need to get 13% higher fuel economy with the diesel for it to break even on $/mile. Could that be done?

a few co-workers have them and love it. quiet and torquey with great fuel economy. seems to be a poorly advertised success IMHO. seems to be a great package in the suburban/tahoe too, 10 speed comes with which is nice and its funny because you can only get the lame 6 speed for a gas engine on the HD trucks. 

93gsxturbo said:

When a 3.5 Ecoboost make 400hp and 450 ft/lbs and gets 21 MPG on cheaper fuel..

At the same time?

dps214 said:

IMO there's a very narrow use case where the small diesels really make sense. Otherwise the fuel economy is offset by high diesel prices and purchase price and they're not really any more capable then the gas engines (actually probably slightly less capable because the engine is heavy which reduces payload capacity). Ford discontinued their small diesel in favor of the Ecoboost hybrid.

I definitely agree on the narrow use, it requires a lot of research.

buzzboy said:

Using today's national average prices you would need to get 13% higher fuel economy with the diesel for it to break even on $/mile. Could that be done?

As far as I can tell, yes it can. There are people claiming 40mpg out of them cruising on flat land. Compared to the the 25/26 of the various smaller gas engines that's pretty impressive. So far limited research says the baby Duramax does better mpg with towing than the little gas engines too.

Admittedly I'm a little hesitant on diesels because I've never owned one too though

NickD said:

Let me preface this by saying I'm a GM tech. The 3.0L diesel seems to be a very good engine so far. No major reliability woes, it's punchy and it's pretty smooth and quiet once underway. In fact, when I've driven them, you kind of forget it's a diesel.

The 2.7T 4-cylinder is also, so far, a pretty terrific engine. Again very smooth and pretty gutsy. It's a complex engine, but we've seen absolutely zero major failures out of them so far.

As for the gas V8s, the 5.3L and 6.2L, well, I'd recommend you avoid them the valvetrain is known to fly to pieces before the first oil change. The oil cooler lines are very commonly known to blow apart before 30k and wipe out engines. Now GM just changed a supplier for bearings and we're seeing bearing failures en masse. I had a 6.2L with 12k miles that spun and stacked a rod bearing at 12k miles for no discernable reason, a d we have another 6.2L that completely wiped the crank bearings before 200 miles. Yeah.

This is very helpful info, thank you!

So let me ask you this: if you had to choose between the diesel and the 2.7, which would you buy?

I haven't done a thorough check on pricing, but I'm seeing claims that the Diesel is about $4k more upfront than a 2.7T. The EPA estimates  $0.17/mile to fuel the Duramax and $0.19/mile to fuel the 2.7T. At a $4k discount on purchase, the 2.7 T would have the financial edge until the 200k mile mark. That's ignoring things like depreciation, maintenance, etc, and making assumptions about fuel economy and pricing deltas so YMMV (literally).

Diesel here in CT is a 20% premium to regular (87 octane), so it makes the equation that much more difficult for a diesel.

In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :

Jeez, 93 is like 25% more than 87 here and Diesel is usually a dollar more than 93 in the winter.

Typically, diesel trucks hold their value much better than gasoline counterparts, but that trend seems to reverse for the "baby' diesel motors in half ton pickups.

I came very close to buying a GMC with the 3.0 before I bought the Touareg. The Touareg won on two counts. Smaller footprint. Not enough information on the ground about the 3.0 Duramax. The Touareg has a few known problems. Compared to all the other small diesels it's reliable as an anvil. 

From what I've been hearing the baby Duramax is pretty impressive and trouble-free. If they keep that reputation I may well dump the Touareg and move up to a 1500 truck or Suburban. 

93gsxturbo said:

When a 3.5 Ecoboost make 400hp and 450 ft/lbs and gets 21 MPG on cheaper fuel...its tough to say that the diesel is a better option.

every person I know with a modern ford has had their car in and out of the dealership for major issues. perhaps if only they circled the problem... 

#iworkforgm

calteg said:

Typically, diesel trucks hold their value much better than gasoline counterparts, but that trend seems to reverse for the "baby' diesel motors in half ton pickups.

I wonder if that will still be true in 10-15 years from now as all the issues with diesel maintenance cost of expensive parts that now will put it in limp mode if not functional and increased scrutiny of diesel/EPA tunes. the higher speed transmission and gas combo seems to be ideal truck combo IMHO, for the right person of course and I think like a GRM'r as someone who wants/needs a truck to do car stuff more conviently. 

plenty of torque, very standard components widely used and available and doesn't mind sitting for a while like diesel. When it comes to diesel you always pay more, more for fuel, more for maintenance but you get more power and more smoothness. 

"Smoothness" is not an attribute I would associate with Diesels. 

Sure, common rail units are a lot better than the old prechamber mechanical injection engines, but they still have torque impulses that shred transmissions.

Antihero said:

NickD said:

Let me preface this by saying I'm a GM tech. The 3.0L diesel seems to be a very good engine so far. No major reliability woes, it's punchy and it's pretty smooth and quiet once underway. In fact, when I've driven them, you kind of forget it's a diesel.

The 2.7T 4-cylinder is also, so far, a pretty terrific engine. Again very smooth and pretty gutsy. It's a complex engine, but we've seen absolutely zero major failures out of them so far.

As for the gas V8s, the 5.3L and 6.2L, well, I'd recommend you avoid them the valvetrain is known to fly to pieces before the first oil change. The oil cooler lines are very commonly known to blow apart before 30k and wipe out engines. Now GM just changed a supplier for bearings and we're seeing bearing failures en masse. I had a 6.2L with 12k miles that spun and stacked a rod bearing at 12k miles for no discernable reason, a d we have another 6.2L that completely wiped the crank bearings before 200 miles. Yeah.

This is very helpful info, thank you!

 

So let me ask you this: if you had to choose between the diesel and the 2.7, which would you buy?

Unless I absolutely needed the power of the diesel, I'd go with the 2.7L. Cheaper engine option, cheaper fuel, you don't have to deal with Diesel Exhaust Fluid, and typically when something does go wrong on a diesel it is typically more expensive and involved to fix