How Long is Long Enough?

I run 10 miles one way to work. So even just a 50 mile range would work for my day to day use. I would have a regular ICE car for the longer road trips I sometimes make on days off.

Leaf owner here. 50 miles of range works for my commute - with all accessories running and 15 degree below zero temps, from my experience last winter.

Optimally, I'd like a 200-250 mile range, as I do have to plug in for an hour or so while visiting my parents 40 miles away in winter. Oh, and a lot more charge stations would be helpful too.

Sometimes I do drive further in a day, but that's why we have two cars.

I can live with a 70 mile range. Which just happens to be the range a local to me guy has for his electric motor swap on his W20 MR2. For normal driving, it would cover much of my needs. I need to start planning that swap. I would have a regular car for road trips.

My commute is 90 miles each way. Add in errands after work and I'd need about 250 miles. I think wiring the roads like slot car track is a better idea.

I haven't read the thread but in my experience, if she curls up next to you afterward and says stuff like "penny for your thoughts," it was probably long enough.

Bobzilla wrote:

ProDarwin wrote: You guys with range issues... do you have more than one car? My wife has a car, I have a car. We don't need **both** of them to do 300+ mile trips. An electric could easily replace one of them.

When I can buy an electric car for under $4k that costs me pennies to maintain and can handle the wife running it to visit friends on the other side of the state, I might consider it.

Understood on the price & maintenance. That's why I own 2 < $4k appliances and not an electric car.

But, if you eliminate those two factors, you couldn't have 1 electric car and 1 normal car? Wife can go visit friends on the other side of the state in the gas car.

Wally wrote: My commute is 90 miles each way. Add in errands after work and I'd need about 250 miles. I think wiring the roads like slot car track is a better idea.

I've always thought this. The slot would help too. Also big magnet bumpers so we can link up like trains to go high speed.

That's what she said

100 miles would be fine for me. Today is a typical (95%) day: 20 miles of errand running in the morning, 10 miles in the late afternoon, and then 3 miles for wife to go visit her aunt in the evening. I could recharge at home from noon to 4 and all night after 8.

Non-typical(mostly Saturdays) is a 70-80 mile round trip somewhere with little/no recharging on the other end.

Problem with EV's right now it that I need something like my Transit Connect as the vehicle. We bought it specifically to fit our driving/hauling needs.

Longer trips we would use the wife's Subaru Legacy which is what we do now.

I have a negligible commute and a preference for owning multiple vehicles, so range is not my concern at all. It comes down to cost, recharge times, and how enjoyable it is to drive. Tesla and Mercedes are the only two that I can think of that made an electric car with driving in mind (as opposed to just being a transportation appliance), and neither of those are remotely affordable on my budget.

ReverendDexter wrote: I have a negligible commute and a preference for owning multiple vehicles, so range is not my concern at all. It comes down to cost, recharge times, and how enjoyable it is to drive. Tesla and Mercedes are the only two that I can think of that made an electric car with driving in mind (as opposed to just being a transportation appliance), and neither of those are remotely affordable on my budget.

The BMW i3 is more affordable than either you mentioned and is fun to drive. Still to pricey for me..

Bobzilla wrote:

ProDarwin wrote: You guys with range issues... do you have more than one car? My wife has a car, I have a car. We don't need **both** of them to do 300+ mile trips. An electric could easily replace one of them.

When I can buy an electric car for under $4k that costs me pennies to maintain and can handle the wife running it to visit friends on the other side of the state, I might consider it.

I drive up to 500 miles a day, my 2011 Elantra has regularly returned 40mpg for 190K in 3 years, why would I buy an Electric car to have to drive something else, the only reason to buy it would be for the economy, and it simply cannot return the range I need.

I currently own 2 dozen cars but drive only one for work.

This thread is depressing.

For something to cover 70% of my driving it would have to be able to do ~20 miles. For something to cover 95% of my driving it would have to cover bout 65 miles. But it really doesn't matter because like any normal car enthusiast i have more than one way to get somewhere. If i need to take a 6000 mile trip i can do so at ~45 mpg with my Prius. If i cant stand to spend 6000 miles without rowing a gear i can get 50mpg with my Insight.

The unwillingness to have different cars to do different things is a huge problem for our society and our friggin planet.

I understand the point about when i can buy a reliable one for $4k i'll consider it, but consider this. Most of the cheap cars i buy are patently unreliable because they are BROKEN when i get them. Then i fix them, MYSELF. There are people out there BUILDING ev's on small budgets and reliably cruising around in them. Those people certainly didn't get where they are by saying "when i can replicate the full functionality of a car that cost a billion dollars to design for $4k, ill consider doing it". They accepted their limitations and got to work and now they are driving around in stuff they built with their own hands while waiting for those 4 thousand dollar billion dollar cars to materialize. Then, when they get those, while all the 'car enthusiasts' in this thread are busy lambasting the next thing and driving the EV equivalent of a stock hyundai elantra, they'll be hot rodding their electric DDs and building a $4k fuel cell car or whatever the next big thing is. They'll be DOING.

Well the average woman is...oh we're talking about batteries?

When I was considering EV-swapping my 'rolla I worked out that I'd need at least 30 miles of range.

In reply to Vigo: Very well put.

Vigo wrote: I understand the point about when i can buy a reliable one for $4k i'll consider it, but consider this. Most of the cheap cars i buy are patently unreliable because they are BROKEN when i get them. Then i fix them, MYSELF.

I'm also picturing what "normal" cars that are somewhat desirable that cost $30-50k or so are like when they get down to $4k. If they ever get down that low.

I recognize that numbers thrown out there are numbers thrown out there, but I don't see EVs really taking any kind of major depreciation hit. Not unless it's a model that is known to have Problems, and those are exactly the ones you don't want to be buying as the second or third or fourth owner.

I find the suggestion that we just own multiple cars to be unsatisfactory.

Cars are not cars. They are a reflection of our societal obsession with independence and individual freedom, and an expression of ourselves.

Most places do not have idolatrous love affair with their modes of transportation.

AND, if we REALLY give a E36 M3 about helping the planet, it is pretty obvious that EV's are not the solution. Mass transit is. But our country has been set up differently, catering to our love of independence.

To that purpose, it is perfectly reasonable to me for the OP to ask, "What would it take to be interested" and for us to respond with figures and numbers which might not be realistic with EV's. It communicates our cultural love of the automobile as independence, not as transportation.

Owning several vehicles is certainly not an environmentally friendly proposition, nor a practical one for the general public.

Many people use their vehicle as transportation, and have only 1. Many have zero.

And in world terms, it's no contest. We are wealthy and have a lot of cars. Most people can't make the choice to have multiple vehicles.

I've been watching the range improvements on the Zero motorcycles pretty closely. My current commute is through the mountains so I'm still concerned that 70-ish mile range isn't quite enough as I don't expect to be able to plug in at work.

That said, I'd expect that I'd pull the trigger on one in the next couple of years if we stay out here. I commute by motorcycle about 6-7 months of the year already and using an electric one would further reduce the cost of my commute.

I also agree with SVreX that mass transit is more of a solution than less pollution from vehicles. As long as public transport is viewed as a solution for those too poor or too hippy to drive, we're not going to solve the underlying problem.

Ian F wrote:

wbjones wrote: 300+ miles and 15min complete recharge time

This is the sort of unrealistic request that hurt the idea of electric cars. No one is saying an electric car would be the perfect vehicle for everyone or every situation. Unfortunately, the current ~100 mile range isn't quite enough for my ~100 mile daily commute. If they could double that and keep the price in the mid-$30K range, I'd strongly consider buying one. I have a garage and running a 220V line for a charger would be child's play for me. Even compared to my TDI, I've done the math and an electric car would be substantially cheaper for how I drive 90% of the time. And it's not like a don't have a small fleet of gasoline cars to drive if needed...

Why is this a unrealistic request? Please elaborate. People once thought that engines would always pollute yet there are some engines today that put out less pollution than they take in, yet here we are today.

Vigo wrote: This thread is depressing. For something to cover 70% of my driving it would have to be able to do ~20 miles. For something to cover 95% of my driving it would have to cover bout 65 miles. But it really doesn't matter because like any normal car enthusiast i have more than one way to get somewhere. If i need to take a 6000 mile trip i can do so at ~45 mpg with my Prius. If i cant stand to spend 6000 miles without rowing a gear i can get 50mpg with my Insight. The unwillingness to have different cars to do different things is a huge problem for our society and our friggin planet. I understand the point about when i can buy a reliable one for $4k i'll consider it, but consider this. Most of the cheap cars i buy are patently unreliable because they are BROKEN when i get them. Then i fix them, MYSELF. There are people out there BUILDING ev's on small budgets and reliably cruising around in them. Those people certainly didn't get where they are by saying "when i can replicate the full functionality of a car that cost a billion dollars to design for $4k, ill consider doing it". They accepted their limitations and got to work and now they are driving around in stuff they built with their own hands while waiting for those 4 thousand dollar billion dollar cars to materialize. Then, when they get those, while all the 'car enthusiasts' in this thread are busy lambasting the next thing and driving the EV equivalent of a stock hyundai elantra, they'll be hot rodding their electric DDs and building a $4k fuel cell car or whatever the next big thing is. They'll be DOING.

IF I could rent a 4 door pickup truck I could tow with (most rental companies won't let you tow with their vehicles anymore.) I could cover 95% of my use with a 200 mile range. If we pushed that to 300 miles, I would be in the 99% range. At 120 miles I would be in the 80% range and at 50 miles I would be in the 75% range.

I do love mass transit, but as a country you are right, we are not set up for it. My upcoming move to DC has me thinking about selling my X3 outright and going to 1 car. Given the mass transit situation there.

But then again I didn't start this thread as a commentary of the damage of the US culture does to the environment as a whole, but more of a what is the number that you would be comfortable living with to try a different powertrane.

ProDarwin wrote: You guys with range issues... do you have more than one car? My wife has a car, I have a car. We don't need **both** of them to do 300+ mile trips. An electric could easily replace one of them.

I have five. There's the Miata, which does track days. Range matters.

There's the minivan which my wife takes on long trips. Range matters.

There's the Audi, which I take on long trips. Range mattes.

There's the truck, which tows the Miata to the track. Range matters.

Then there's the Locost Seven, which barely get driven at all. I guess range isn't too important on there, but the idea of loading 800 pounds of batteries into a Seven is heresy.

So no, I can't replace any of them with an electric car.

60 miles would cover my daily commute, but realistically it's 30 miles because I can charge at school all day.

I've been seriously considering a used Leaf. $11k gets you a nice once, and it would be cool to not buy gas. I've got a pair of Troopers for my long trip/towing needs.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

I've been watching the electric motorcycles too, unfortunately even those are far too light on range to compete for my money. It's very rare that I get out on the bike and do less than 200 miles in a day. 500 or so miles are more frequent.

For me electric is just not a feasible alternative for petrol in any aspect of my life.

My daily commute is either 8 or 13 miles each way, depending on what route I take. I would be perfectly happy riding a bicycle if there wasn't a 100% chance I'd get run over.

As for range, I think 60 miles would be the bare minimum with sub 8 hour charge times using a standard 110 outlet.

In reply to Flight Service:

I need at least 80 to get to work and back home. I would like it to be a fully loaded 80. Ac in the summer and heat in the winter and enough to get home in a snow storm where the miles stay the same but the time doubles.

Steve

Knurled wrote:

SVreX wrote: So, I would seriously consider one with a 200 mile range IF I was confident there was easily available recharge capabilities at the other end that could charge it in less than an hour.

I did the math on the kind of power requirements this ability would require. You'd basically have to put a multi-megawatt power plant right at the point of charging. We have a LOT of things to change if we want to go with electric vehicles. Need to build a lot more power production capability and a nationwide revamp of the power grid, in *addition* to redesigning our whole way of life and somehow making EVs a lot better at energy use. In short, EVs will continue to be a niche for a long time, possibly forever, and hybrids are the best answer short-term while we work toward dealing with the infrastructure and lifestyle issues.

This is why I'm a far bigger supporter of developing (Preferably carbon neutral) synthetic gasoline and diesel. Much less infrastructure improvement/modification needed.

I think a lot of people forget that the electric car is nearly as old as the automobile itself, and it still has the same problems that killed it off 100 years ago, we still haven't found a cheap solution to the energy density and charge time problem.