How much horsepower is enough?

Too much horsepower is like pornography; I'll know it when I see it.

Oddly enough, I've been thinking about how little I could actually get away with. I blame rising fuel costs and a just-long-enough-to-be-annoying commute.

On the track, give me more and I'll find a way to use it.

JG Pasterjak wrote: There is no such thing as "too much power." There is only "not enough tire."

Or not enough talent. I drove a shelby mustang, i think it was around a 2008 model. Probably in the 500 hp range. I remember thinking "It would take a better driver than me to get everything out of this car." This was on the street with not awesome tires. I actually liked the regular mustang gt of the same vintage better. It had enough power to be fun but not to the point that it felt like it was going to kill you.

Now my 65 mustang is probably running somewhere in the neighborhood of 275 hp, and the chassis so bad that it feels like that is too much. 400 would mean instant death. But its a 351 so theres plenty of low and midrange torque that is a treat in real world driving.

RossD wrote: Too much horsepower is like pornography; I'll know it when I see it.

I have driven and ridden in some ridiculous stuff and I have yet to see it. Speed based boost/traction control makes this possible.

In reply to gearheadmb:

I got the chance to take a GT500 on 315 rivals at all 4 corners for an autocross run. I can tell you that I do not have enough talent for that car without the nannies. I made it all of 150ft before looping that car. Literally first corner in it. My right foot twitched and that eleventy bajillion hp ripped the rear tires loose. Actually, a "twitch" is too much.... I think I might have breathed heavily in it's direction.

My past c5z was LS7 swapped, weighed 2950lbs and made 521whp/517wtq with over 400ft/lbs of that torque starting at 2000rpms.

That was just about enough for me on the street, with 18x12 and 335 street tires you'd certainly get spin in 1st/2nd but unless you were brake standing you were still actively hustling down the road in a terrible hurry. By the time 2nd gear hooks up and you're ready to shift into 3rd you're already touching triple digit speeds.

That same car on the track always seemed like it would enjoy another 1-200 more hp though.

Bobzilla wrote: ...My right foot twitched and that eleventy bajillion hp ripped the rear tires loose....

Very funny. Thanks.

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Toyman01 wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: ...My right foot twitched and that eleventy bajillion hp ripped the rear tires loose....

Very funny. Thanks.

I aim to please, but usually end up in the "not quite as irritating" area a lot. But in all seriousness, those had something like 662hp stock or something insane with a solid rear axle. Put that with a driver more used to the throttle as an on/off switch and well.... spins happen fast.

EDIT: now that I think about it... that was right in front of our spectator area and it did spin TOWARDS them. Maybe it was just a mustang doing mustang things?

Has anybody brought up Mark Donohue? I'm sure he said, when asked about the 12 cylinder Porsche Can Am car, something like, "When I can leave two stripes all the way to the braking point on the longest straight, I will have enough power."

Or something along those lines.

Danny Shields wrote: I remember one year at the SCCA Solo Nationals when the SS winner told me that he didn't ever get the gas pedal all the way down, anywhere on the course.

Teh RX-7 is like that. When the course is grippy I need to consciously apply more throttle, since full throttle is not something I'm used to needing.

Power delivery is way more important than power output. This is why I really, really like long-revving naturally aspirated engines. They're very easy to pedal. 2/3rd the power with on/off power delivery in a much heavier car feels like way too much power, while I'm always looking for more power in the RX-7 because it's easy to dial back in the times I can't use it.

Now I'm wondering, if any of the fancy data-overlaying in-car camera can interface with a MS2/Extra.

Enough power? That concept is alien to me. There is no, "too powerful." It is possible to not have enough tire.

Enough power? It's when the red&blue's start showing up.

Drove a supercharged 502 BBC in a Chevelle once. Easily north of 1000hp. It was squarely enough.

Depending on the vehicle and its intended use, I like 1hp per 10 lbs (provided the engine is properly sized to make torque at the proper RPM).

3000 lbs, 300 hp. That's enough to keep up with traffic. For a fun blaster, the sky is the limit. FOr an autocrosser or road racer, more isn't always better.

In reply to Trackmouse:

???

Trackmouse wrote: Enough power? It's when the red&blue's start showing up.

If that's true, a golf cart has enough horsepower.

In reply to Toyman01:

90hp is plenty! In a 1900lb car with slow manual steering..

Enough HP? When you have all that the chassis, suspension, brakes, and driver can handle. Like Pirelli says, Control is everything. If you are leaving Cars & Coffee and you put your Mustang into the crowds or the curb...you have too much horsepower...and Torque.

Enough is always just a little bit more.

My late great lamented Mazdog weighed around 2700 lb and put down a bit over 300 hp and tq to the wheels. Small displacement-big boost, and entertaining as all getout but it was never quite enough. This Merc I'm driving these days weighs 2 frikkin tons, and makes 568 ftlbs at the wheels prettymuch from idle to redline and does 0-100 in under 9. I have yet to come across a situation where I was wanting more Go in this car. My tire budget says "this'll do"....

and yet I wanna do the TT V12 swap someday cuz stoooopid

Modern 1000cc sportbikes.

If you've never ridden one, you wouldn't even believe the way they bend space and time.

The answer is always more.

There was a video going around of a turbo Hayabusa on the street. No matter what speed he started at, accelerating caused the front tire to lift. I can't think of a better definition of "enough."

In reply to Toyman01:

I think he was talking about doppler shift

Furious_E wrote: The answer is always more.

So you've driven/ridden something capable of sub-10 sec 1/4 mile passes? That's an insane level of acceleration on the street.