Looking at a 2018 Ecoboost Mustang. Manual with 45k miles. It has an aftermarket exhaust, some Mishimoto parts under the hood,a Cobb cold air intake and a noisy blow off valve. Its at a used car lot so they don't know a thing about it. Whats a good way to tell if this thing has had a ECU re-flash / tune? The car is clean, parts look properly installed and it runs fine. The check engine light is on for a catalyst fault. Cat is on the car.
You would have to have someone with a decent scan tune read the CAL ID or similar out of the ECU and see if it has a factory calibration. Might be doable with Forscan, otherwise you would need the factory scan tool.
Mishimoto parts? I would walk away.
z31maniac said:Mishimoto parts? I would walk away.
Really? The intercooler kit is near $1000. I'm not familiar with the turbo aftermarket.
In reply to Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) :
Yes really. They are the bottom of the barrel for aftermarket. I had a friend with one of their radiators have the overflow spout break off just by tapping on it. They built a name overall but the quality is in the hot mess category.
On the FiST and FoST the best way to check if a car had a tune on it on a dealer lot was to clutch in, hold cruise control and floor the gas. This would show if a launch rpm had been set with a Cobb Accessport.
Science demands you find out. And the only way to do that is to buy it and challenge other 2018 Mustangs to races. Document the scientific process on YouTube. Keep the old, infirm, and young children far way from your experiments because Mustang.
When I bought my Alltrack, it was just a matter of emailing the prominent tuning companies with my VIN and seeing if they had any record of the car
If it has a hour meter on it, scroll through the menus and check. Most tunes wipe it clean to zero. If it has like 100hrs of run time but 100k miles.... red flag.
Turbine said:When I bought my Alltrack, it was just a matter of emailing the prominent tuning companies with my VIN and seeing if they had any record of the car
Same here with my Golf.
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:z31maniac said:Mishimoto parts? I would walk away.
Really? The intercooler kit is near $1000. I'm not familiar with the turbo aftermarket.
Expensive != quality (not necessarily)
Maybe it's changed since back in the day when they entered the BMW market, but I would still go for better brands........and people that use better brands.
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:z31maniac said:Mishimoto parts? I would walk away.
Really? The intercooler kit is near $1000. I'm not familiar with the turbo aftermarket.
I'm surprised too. Not saying Z31 maniac is wrong, I'm just surprised since that seems to be the go to brand of heat-exchange in the YouTube community
In reply to A 401 CJ :
They plant a lot of free products to that community for brand awareness. They also spent a ton in the Formula D community as well. There are much better units for the $$$
They just don't last, usually don't fit the greatest, and tend to leak. I'll take my Vibrant core every day of the week.
If it's clearly modified I'm not sure why a tune is the deal breaker?
Especially if Mishimoto parts, that screams canned tune which typically barely increase power. Mostly throttle mapping to make it "feel" faster.
Get it custom tuned and let it eat.
In reply to ztnedman1 :
Technically, tunes are illegal unless they have the proper paperwork.
I don't really see why it matters if it's tuned or not when it has all these mods. It's already modded.
I would assume it probably has some cobb tune or something and just get it properly dyno tuned once I bought it if I wanted the car.
In reply to kanaric :
It would matter if the tune destroyed the motor. Did it cause the catalyst failure?
And as a former tuner, do you really think a few hours of your dyno time will be better than the thousands Ford put into it?
alfadriver said:In reply to kanaric :
It would matter if the tune destroyed the motor. Did it cause the catalyst failure?
And as a former tuner, do you really think a few hours of your dyno time will be better than the thousands Ford put into it?
Thats basiclly my thought. I'm concerned something has been done to it that my be shortening its life. If the cat failed is it running to fat and cant digest all the extra fuel? Too lean and melting down?
If I buy one of these, I have no plans to modify the engine. As mentioned Ford should have it figured out. Was just looking at this stuff as a bonus, which it sounds like it may not be.
I'll hold out for a stock one. Kinda sucks because this one was exactly what I wanted. White, manual, drive modes, 19" wheel package, and never has seen a winter.
In reply to alfadriver :
What would matter if a tune is on it now or before? The "damage" is already done. This car has performance mods on it already. 150% chance it at least had a tune at some point so just assume it did and move on or buy it.
And as a former tuner, do you really think a few hours of your dyno time will be better than the thousands Ford put into it?
Yes. Ford has to care about things like emissions regulations and fuel economy. I don't.
Technically, tunes are illegal unless they have the proper paperwork.
This sounds like a reddit fact.
If tunes were "technically illegal" then tuners would be charged with federal crimes.
In reply to kanaric :
The federal government isn't going to go after individuals, but the companies selling the software to tune. It's just like removing a cat or air injection, you're tampering with an emission device which is no question illegal. Is it prosecuted very often? No. That doesn't make it any less illegal. Kind of like going 65 in 60. Is it illegal? Yes. Rarely will you see an issue though.
A 401 CJ said:Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:z31maniac said:Mishimoto parts? I would walk away.
Really? The intercooler kit is near $1000. I'm not familiar with the turbo aftermarket.
I'm surprised too. Not saying Z31 maniac is wrong, I'm just surprised since that seems to be the go to brand of heat-exchange in the YouTube community
You kind of answered yourself when you said YT community.
Of course, not all, but many who are creating content for likes/follows, use free/sponsored/cheap stuff. Quality brands don't have to do that.
You probably won't find an "influencer" doing a vid with BBS or HRE wheels, for example.
In reply to kanaric :
If the recalibration of the ECU caused the catalyst to fail, what other hidden gems are in it that may cause the rest of the engine to fail. We saw this before where our calibration was messed with, and it would grenade motors on the track.
Leading me to your second point, while it's possible to make a little more power, unless you know the pretty specific part to modify, you really risk blowing the motor up. There is little chance you will have the facilities that OEMs have when it comes to tuning the powertrain. So you would be changing things blindly. Ford calibrates the motor pretty close to the limit of what it can do without damage, that I know. And for thinking that emissions has a major influence on peak power- it's a very minor influence, not much is going to be gained by sacrificing emissions for power. But you can break things.
As for the legality, I assure you I speak with specific knowledge of the laws. Tampering is illegal, and a number of tuners have faced significant fines for tampering with the OEM calibration. So the ability to even get software to do what you want to do has gotten much tougher.
iansane said:In reply to kanaric :
The federal government isn't going to go after individuals, but the companies selling the software to tune. It's just like removing a cat or air injection, you're tampering with an emission device which is no question illegal. Is it prosecuted very often? No. That doesn't make it any less illegal. Kind of like going 65 in 60. Is it illegal? Yes. Rarely will you see an issue though.
That very much depends on the state. Some police every car they register.
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